> On Jan 12, 2025, at 3:04 PM, sartesian via groups.io
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Just as uneven and combined development determined that a successful "liberal
> democratic revolution" was/is impossible in the "less developed" nations,
It might be worth quoting Trotsky here to ground the discussion. From
http://www.markfoster.net/struc/results_and_prospects.pdf:
"the Revolution, having begun as a bourgeois revolution as regards its first
tasks, will soon call forth powerful class conflicts and will gain final
victory only by transferring power to the only class capable of standing at the
head of the oppressed masses, namely, to the proletariat. Once in power, the
proletariat not only will not want, but will not be able to limit itself to a
bourgeois democratic programme. It will be able to carry through the Revolution
to the end only in the event of the Russian Revolution being converted into a
Revolution of the European proletariat."
Much depends on the definition of a 'successful "liberal democratic
revolution,"' but it won't be led by the bourgeoisie, according to Trotsky's
theory of permanent revolution, but by the working class, possibly allied with
other classes, such as small farmers.
> it determines that a) the right of self-determination is the echo of an era
> that has been eclipsed
That may be true if the final state is defined to be an independent capitalist
country, but it is not true as a struggle for self-determination that can
mobilize the working class to confront a foreign power, leading to a stronger,
well-organized class capable of confronting the local capitalists and
compradors.
> b) the attempts to maintain the classification of the underlying social
> struggle as one of self-determination must include a struggle against the
> development of independent working class program and action; a struggle
> against revolution.
>
That may or may not be true, but it is not consistent with Trotsky's theory of
permanent revolution, but a lot depends on the definition of "maintain the
classification of the underlying social struggle." A successful social struggle
led by working people and working-class organizations won't "maintain the
classification," which I think is the point of Trotsky's theory.
Mark
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