The question of being moral, whether influenced by theistic or secular drives is simply a matter of examination of the end result. A moral society is a happy society as each member can rely on the other to execute moral judgment in all aspects of daily life further instilling a sense of security in life. Attaching theism to morality creates a conundrum in that "acting out" immorally can in some cases bear no consequence or judgment, rendering the act as morally acceptable. Twentieth century cultures that still conduct barbaric ritual based upon religious criteria, such as clitoral scarification and other irremediable mutilations, through religious rite are justified in their act and engaging in moral conduct. This is why acting moral should not by infringed upon by theistic influence. Being moral is simply a conscious behavior based on the positive end result, the good outcome which benefits all creatures. I don't know of any religion that condones sex with children but the recent story concerning the FLDS and others comes to mind. A brief google search reveals the shocking truth that this does go on. http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=cult+has+sex+with+children
On Apr 9, 8:45 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > If there is anyone reading this that honestly thinks that sex with > children is in any way acceptable my advise is RUN to the nearest > shrink and get help. If the reasons aren't obvious, stay a very long > time. But the question about adults shagging anything hot and ready - > is it immoral or just vulgar - that is a good one. > > On Apr 9, 1:40 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Why for example is sex with a minor immoral? > > > Minors overwhelmingly lack the experience to make the right judgment > > calls. It's taking unfair advantage of them. It's FEELS wrong. The > > whole idea sickens me. > > > dj > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:27 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Then may I respectfully suggest that you have not thought deeply > > > enough on the reasons why the majority of us proclaim the killing of a > > > human by another immoral. > > > > Why for example is sex with a minor immoral? > > > > On 8 Apr, 12:14, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> I don't see any gray area here. Kids used to be considered property > > >> of their parents by law so didn't get the legal benefit of self nor > > >> are they expected to conduct themselves as well as adults. They get a > > >> break. When an adult has committed a heinous crime and their is a > > >> reasonable assumption that they will repeat the behavior I see no > > >> reason to allow them to continue to breath. I don't know if I could do > > >> it myself or not but I certainly wouldn't have a problem with the > > >> State doing the job. Nor would I shed a tear if someone else took him > > >> out. Some folks just need killing. > > > >> dj > > > >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:40 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > > >> > Hey Don, > > > >> > Now I'm know that Chris is going to object strongly here but meh, > > >> > people are diffeant which makes the world a whole lot of fun as far as > > >> > I'm concerend. > > > >> > I think if we question more deeply why the majority find that the > > >> > killing of a human by another human immoral, we'll propably find that > > >> > it has a whole lot to do with ownership. > > > >> > Ownership of mind and body. Who owns my Self? Me and only me, it is > > >> > immoral to kill me for any reasons soley because to commit such an act > > >> > elevates somebody elses wishes above my own in regard to what to do > > >> > with my Self. > > > >> > The fact that I have had sex (okay we all realise that this is an > > >> > example and not an admission) with a young boy of 6, does not negate > > >> > my ownership of my Self. > > > >> > In addition one of the reasons that such paedophilia is considered > > >> > immoral (and rape also) is prescily because the very act itself > > >> > elevates somebody elses whish above that of the victim. > > > >> > If we find that is immoral then killing for any reason must also be. > > >> > To declare otherwise is hypocritical in the extreame. > > > >> > On 8 Apr, 06:34, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> How about the poedophile, who may seduce an unsuspecting mind but may > > > >> >> > not have actually " forced " sex upon a child ? > > > >> >> I thought of this also when I saw the word 'incest' used. I quickly > > >> >> surmised Michael was referring to adults only. Children don't know > > >> >> what's good for them and that's why we have laws against sex with > > >> >> children. There aren't a lot of people willing to argue this law > > >> >> except maybe NAMBLA. As far as I know; incest in general isn't > > >> >> against he law. It is certainly taboo, as it should be, but not > > >> >> unlawful. If it's not immoral, it is unwise and risky IMO. > > >> >> Definitely socially unacceptable in a way that homosexuality clearly > > >> >> isn't. > > > >> >> Someone said killing someone is immoral. Not in all cases I would > > >> >> say. What if the person being killed is the person that molested your > > >> >> child and just proclaimed their intent to do it again? It would be > > >> >> almost immoral not to kill the bastard. > > > >> >> dj > > > >> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Vamadevananda > > >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> > How about the poedophile, who may seduce an unsuspecting mind but > > >> >> > may > > >> >> > not have actually " forced " sex upon a child ? > > > >> >> > On Apr 7, 7:34 pm, Michael Berkovits <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> >> Is morality only what we feel is good for us? Or is there a > > > >> >> >> > greater good to consider? > > > >> >> >> Who here thinks that sexual "immorality," like homosexuality or > > >> >> >> incest, is immoral? I present the point because I think it beyond > > >> >> >> obvious that neither is, nor is any brand of sexual > > >> >> >> "immorality" (except for things like forced sex, which is immoral > > >> >> >> not > > >> >> >> because it has anything to do with sex but because it has to do > > >> >> >> with > > >> >> >> coercion) but obviously many people in this world disagree. > > > >> >> >> On Apr 7, 10:24 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> >> > I doubt that many people would see loan interest as immoral. > > >> >> >> > Yet you > > >> >> >> > see it this way because it goes against what you feel is good for > > >> >> >> > you. Is morality only what we feel is good for us? Or is there > > >> >> >> > a > > >> >> >> > greater good to consider? > > > >> >> >> > On Apr 7, 2:55 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> >> > > Frayed knot is an interesting way of putting it. > > > >> >> >> > > I think society is more immoral than moral. I think most > > >> >> >> > > people agree that > > >> >> >> > > killing some one is wrong. My problem with morality is when > > >> >> >> > > some one > > >> >> >> > > charges excessive interest like in credit cards (my wife and I > > >> >> >> > > have one -- > > >> >> >> > > and it is for emergencies only -- then immediately paid off ) > > >> >> >> > > justifying > > >> >> >> > > this as sound business when in reality to me it seems like > > >> >> >> > > this greed is a > > >> >> >> > > way of slowly killing some one, or Like ( i do have a very > > >> >> >> > > good health > > >> >> >> > > insurance.) when I ended up in the hospital a few years back > > >> >> >> > > in the USA and > > >> >> >> > > the bill exceeded $8,000. for 24 hour stay.. basically to get > > >> >> >> > > my heart beat > > >> >> >> > > stabilized and watched. I saw 2 doctors for a total of 10 > > >> >> >> > > minutes.. > > >> >> >> > > If I did not have insurance i would have an huge medical bill > > >> >> >> > > and to pay it > > >> >> >> > > I would have had to take food of my table to pay the bill. To > > >> >> >> > > me if a person > > >> >> >> > > is forced to pay an excessive amount to cover a bill cutting > > >> >> >> > > back on normal > > >> >> >> > > expenses to pay it,, the hospital is killing that person. > > > >> >> >> > > or by charging excessive rent.. or a myriad of other ways of > > >> >> >> > > killing some > > >> >> >> > > one legally .. the slower the better.. > > > >> >> >> > > On my savings account I am paid a meager 2.6 % but if I want > > >> >> >> > > to borrow money > > >> >> >> > > I have to pay 9.8% If I depended upon that interest for my > > >> >> >> > > living again > > >> >> >> > > corporate greed would be killing me.. and this difference is > > >> >> >> > > immoral yet it > > >> >> >> > > is easily justified as business. > > > >> >> >> > > I think people many people only want to appear to be moral > > >> >> >> > > yet at the same > > >> >> >> > > time want to use business or corporations to hide their > > >> >> >> > > immorality. > > > >> >> >> > > The only conclusion I can reach is people prefer to be > > >> >> >> > > immoral. Just talking > > >> >> >> > > the talk not walking the walk of morality. > > > >> >> >> > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Molly Brogan > > >> >> >> > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> >> > > > Evil reconciled to good? Frayed knot! > > > >> >> >> > > > On Apr 5, 10:18 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> >> > > > > Why is evil always so hard to nail down or why does it > > >> >> >> > > > > seem that no > > >> >> >> > > > > one really wants to identify it but simply dissect the > > >> >> >> > > > > potentiality of > > >> >> >> > > > > what it may define. You don't consider anything on the > > >> >> >> > > > > video as evil > > >> >> >> > > > > but do recognize it as bad, horrifying and obscene, which > > >> >> >> > > > > basically > > >> >> >> > > > > covers the face of evil, but rather bypass evil > > >> >> >> > > > > representation to > > >> >> >> > > > > bring attention to religious aspects, which by the way I > > >> >> >> > > > > agree with > > >> >> >> > > > > 100%, don't burn your steak here. The dark ages are still > > >> >> >> > > > > upon us > > >> >> >> > > > > brother and while technology creates a vision of > > >> >> >> > > > > advancement, > > >> >> >> > > > > attitudes and behaviours create a different picture, the > > >> >> >> > > > > picture of > > >> >> >> > > > > reality, of good and of evil. I feel we must somehow find > > >> >> >> > > > > resolve in > > >> >> >> > > > > the issue of what is evil. We have here a collection of > > >> >> >> > > > > brilliant > > >> >> >> > > > > minds, myself excluded lol, and so we can somehow be > > >> >> >> > > > > assertive in our > > >> >> >> > > > > resolve. I find too many threads wind up as fray ends. > > >> >> >> > > > > Which reminds > > >> >> >> > > > > me of a thread that walked into a bar, the bartender said > > >> >> >> > > > > "we don't > > >> >> >> > > > > serve threads", so the thread walked out, shredded out > > >> >> >> > > > > it's end and > > >> >> >> > > > > tied itself into a loop, walked back into the bar, the > > >> >> >> > > > > bartender > > >> >> >> > > > > noticed and immediately and irately said, "damn, I told > > >> >> >> > > > > you we don't > > >> >> >> > > > > serve threads in here", the thread responded "I'm not a > > >> >> >> > > > > thread" at > > >> >> >> > > > > which the bartender scowled, "you are so" and so the > > >> >> >> > > > > thread having the > > >> >> >> > > > > last word said "nope, I'm a frayed knot". > > > >> >> >> > > > > On Apr 5, 12:26 pm, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> >> > > > > > Thanks Slip. I don't really consider what is going on > > >> >> >> > > > > > in the video > > >> >> >> > > > > > and what it represents as evil. It is bad, it is > > >> >> >> > > > > > horrifying, it is > > >> >> >> > > > > > obscene, but it is also no more than religion battling > > >> >> >> > > > > > it's fiercest > > >> >> >> > > > > > foe -- education and enlightenment. On the other hand, > > >> >> >> > > > > > religion > > >> >> >> > > > > > considers education and enlightenment evil -- the work > > >> >> >> > > > > > of the devil. > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
