In the course of this conversation, there was some reference to children "seducing" adults and Lolita. Also mention on cultural differences on the issue. Orn seemed to suggest that psychiatry is ill equipped to address the issue. I do not agree with that. I replied to your post, Slip, simply because it was the last in the tread. I mean no disrespect, certainly.
I find sex with children to be a behavior that is not only immoral - going against the cultural norm - but amoral - completely without morals. There are cultures that allow people to marry at the onset of puberty. I've not heard of an amoral culture that allows anyone and everyone to have sex with children, and if anyone can site one, it would be interesting. There may be other cultures that have moral standards that are different than mine. I do not allow that to be an excuse for abusive behavior towards others, or acts that exceed my own cultural norms. I think it is important that we not amuse ourselves with conversations that provoke discussion that in anyway justifies sex with children, just to see if we can stir it up. It is one of the most serious transgressions from one person to another that has lifelong traumatic ramifications for the child. Above all, I think that whatever our cultural norms, we each, at least at some point in our lives, can look within ourselves, observe our behavior toward others, extend empathy and compassion toward others, and find ways to act that are include consideration of the greater good for everyone. I think that this is what allows a personal and cultural morality. On Apr 9, 11:16 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > Your phrasing implies that it is acceptable by me! I hope that is not > what you are inferring in your sentence "... if sex with children is > in any way acceptable to you, whether you are part of a fringe sect or > otherwise - seek professional help." > > I find sex with children a depravity of humanity as is sex with > animals. > > If sex with children is in any way acceptable to "people", whether > part of a fringe sect or otherwise - they should seek professional > help or chop off their own head! > > On Apr 9, 10:02 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > There is much done in the name of morality that is not moral. Does it > > need effect our moral compass? The issue of sex with children is such > > a huge no brainer that most any shrink can handle it. Basic human > > decency is not hard to figure, even for those limited to rationality. > > I do agree, more spirituality in the sciences of human behavior would > > be nice, but still, if sex with children is in any way acceptable to > > you, whether you are part of a fringe sect or otherwise - seek > > professional help. Lolita was written to highlight the subtle ways > > that children can be abused and used - not as an affirmation of it. > > > On Apr 9, 10:54 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > The question of being moral, whether influenced by theistic or secular > > > drives is simply a matter of examination of the end result. A moral > > > society is a happy society as each member can rely on the other to > > > execute moral judgment in all aspects of daily life further instilling > > > a sense of security in life. Attaching theism to morality creates a > > > conundrum in that "acting out" immorally can in some cases bear no > > > consequence or judgment, rendering the act as morally acceptable. > > > Twentieth century cultures that still conduct barbaric ritual based > > > upon religious criteria, such as clitoral scarification and other > > > irremediable mutilations, through religious rite are justified in > > > their act and engaging in moral conduct. This is why acting moral > > > should not by infringed upon by theistic influence. Being moral is > > > simply a conscious behavior based on the positive end result, the good > > > outcome which benefits all creatures. I don't know of any religion > > > that condones sex with children but the recent story concerning the > > > FLDS and others comes to mind. A brief google search reveals the > > > shocking truth that this does go > > > on.http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfn... > > > > On Apr 9, 8:45 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > If there is anyone reading this that honestly thinks that sex with > > > > children is in any way acceptable my advise is RUN to the nearest > > > > shrink and get help. If the reasons aren't obvious, stay a very long > > > > time. But the question about adults shagging anything hot and ready - > > > > is it immoral or just vulgar - that is a good one. > > > > > On Apr 9, 1:40 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Why for example is sex with a minor immoral? > > > > > > Minors overwhelmingly lack the experience to make the right judgment > > > > > calls. It's taking unfair advantage of them. It's FEELS wrong. The > > > > > whole idea sickens me. > > > > > > dj > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:27 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Then may I respectfully suggest that you have not thought deeply > > > > > > enough on the reasons why the majority of us proclaim the killing > > > > > > of a > > > > > > human by another immoral. > > > > > > > Why for example is sex with a minor immoral? > > > > > > > On 8 Apr, 12:14, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> I don't see any gray area here. Kids used to be considered > > > > > >> property > > > > > >> of their parents by law so didn't get the legal benefit of self nor > > > > > >> are they expected to conduct themselves as well as adults. They > > > > > >> get a > > > > > >> break. When an adult has committed a heinous crime and their is a > > > > > >> reasonable assumption that they will repeat the behavior I see no > > > > > >> reason to allow them to continue to breath. I don't know if I > > > > > >> could do > > > > > >> it myself or not but I certainly wouldn't have a problem with the > > > > > >> State doing the job. Nor would I shed a tear if someone else took > > > > > >> him > > > > > >> out. Some folks just need killing. > > > > > > >> dj > > > > > > >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:40 AM, [email protected] > > > > > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> > Hey Don, > > > > > > >> > Now I'm know that Chris is going to object strongly here but meh, > > > > > >> > people are diffeant which makes the world a whole lot of fun as > > > > > >> > far as > > > > > >> > I'm concerend. > > > > > > >> > I think if we question more deeply why the majority find that the > > > > > >> > killing of a human by another human immoral, we'll propably find > > > > > >> > that > > > > > >> > it has a whole lot to do with ownership. > > > > > > >> > Ownership of mind and body. Who owns my Self? Me and only me, > > > > > >> > it is > > > > > >> > immoral to kill me for any reasons soley because to commit such > > > > > >> > an act > > > > > >> > elevates somebody elses wishes above my own in regard to what to > > > > > >> > do > > > > > >> > with my Self. > > > > > > >> > The fact that I have had sex (okay we all realise that this is an > > > > > >> > example and not an admission) with a young boy of 6, does not > > > > > >> > negate > > > > > >> > my ownership of my Self. > > > > > > >> > In addition one of the reasons that such paedophilia is > > > > > >> > considered > > > > > >> > immoral (and rape also) is prescily because the very act itself > > > > > >> > elevates somebody elses whish above that of the victim. > > > > > > >> > If we find that is immoral then killing for any reason must also > > > > > >> > be. > > > > > >> > To declare otherwise is hypocritical in the extreame. > > > > > > >> > On 8 Apr, 06:34, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> >> How about the poedophile, who may seduce an unsuspecting mind > > > > > >> >> but may > > > > > > >> >> > not have actually " forced " sex upon a child ? > > > > > > >> >> I thought of this also when I saw the word 'incest' used. I > > > > > >> >> quickly > > > > > >> >> surmised Michael was referring to adults only. Children don't > > > > > >> >> know > > > > > >> >> what's good for them and that's why we have laws against sex > > > > > >> >> with > > > > > >> >> children. There aren't a lot of people willing to argue this > > > > > >> >> law > > > > > >> >> except maybe NAMBLA. As far as I know; incest in general isn't > > > > > >> >> against he law. It is certainly taboo, as it should be, but > > > > > >> >> not > > > > > >> >> unlawful. If it's not immoral, it is unwise and risky IMO. > > > > > >> >> Definitely socially unacceptable in a way that homosexuality > > > > > >> >> clearly > > > > > >> >> isn't. > > > > > > >> >> Someone said killing someone is immoral. Not in all cases I > > > > > >> >> would > > > > > >> >> say. What if the person being killed is the person that > > > > > >> >> molested your > > > > > >> >> child and just proclaimed their intent to do it again? It > > > > > >> >> would be > > > > > >> >> almost immoral not to kill the bastard. > > > > > > >> >> dj > > > > > > >> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Vamadevananda > > > > > >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> >> > How about the poedophile, who may seduce an unsuspecting mind > > > > > >> >> > but may > > > > > >> >> > not have actually " forced " sex upon a child ? > > > > > > >> >> > On Apr 7, 7:34 pm, Michael Berkovits <[email protected]> > > > > > >> >> > wrote: > > > > > >> >> >> Is morality only what we feel is good for us? Or is there a > > > > > > >> >> >> > greater good to consider? > > > > > > >> >> >> Who here thinks that sexual "immorality," like homosexuality > > > > > >> >> >> or > > > > > >> >> >> incest, is immoral? I present the point because I think it > > > > > >> >> >> beyond > > > > > >> >> >> obvious that neither is, nor is any brand of sexual > > > > > >> >> >> "immorality" (except for things like forced sex, which is > > > > > >> >> >> immoral not > > > > > >> >> >> because it has anything to do with sex but because it has to > > > > > >> >> >> do with > > > > > >> >> >> coercion) but obviously many people in this world disagree. > > > > > > >> >> >> On Apr 7, 10:24 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> > > > > > >> >> >> wrote: > > > > > > >> >> >> > I doubt that many people would see loan interest as > > > > > >> >> >> > immoral. Yet you > > > > > >> >> >> > see it this way because it goes against what you feel is > > > > > >> >> >> > good for > > > > > >> >> >> > you. Is morality only what we feel is good for us? Or is > > > > > >> >> >> > there a > > > > > >> >> >> > greater good to consider? > > > > > > >> >> >> > On Apr 7, 2:55 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> > > > > > >> >> >> > wrote: > > > > > > >> >> >> > > Frayed knot is an interesting way of putting it. > > > > > > >> >> >> > > I think society is more immoral than moral. I think most > > > > > >> >> >> > > people agree that > > > > > >> >> >> > > killing some one is wrong. My problem with morality is > > > > > >> >> >> > > when some one > > > > > >> >> >> > > charges excessive interest like in credit cards (my wife > > > > > >> >> >> > > and I have one -- > > > > > >> >> >> > > and it is for emergencies only -- then immediately paid > > > > > >> >> >> > > off ) justifying > > > > > >> >> >> > > this as sound business when in reality to me it seems > > > > > >> >> >> > > like this greed is a > > > > > >> >> >> > > way of slowly killing some one, or Like ( i do have a > > > > > >> >> >> > > very good health > > > > > >> >> >> > > insurance.) when I ended up in the hospital a few years > > > > > >> >> >> > > back in the USA and > > > > > >> >> >> > > the bill exceeded $8,000. for 24 hour stay.. basically > > > > > >> >> >> > > to get my heart beat > > > > > >> >> >> > > stabilized and watched. I saw 2 doctors for a total of > > > > > >> >> >> > > 10 minutes.. > > > > > >> >> >> > > If I did not have insurance i would have an huge medical > > > > > >> >> >> > > bill and to pay it > > > > > >> >> >> > > I would have had to take food of my table to pay the > > > > > >> >> >> > > bill. To me if a person > > > > > >> >> >> > > is forced to pay an excessive amount to cover a bill > > > > > >> >> >> > > cutting back on normal > > > > > >> >> >> > > expenses to pay it,, the hospital is killing that person. > > > > > > >> >> >> > > or by charging excessive rent.. or a myriad of other > > > > > >> >> >> > > ways of killing some > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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