Thank you, Chris !
On Aug 7, 10:57 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
> First, Vam, I did not inform D that he was wrong. I informed him that what
> he saw on TV was wrong.
>
> "What you saw on TV the other day was implicitly wrong. Prozac is an
> SSRI, and has a specific and complex brain functionality."
>
> (typo corrected).
>
> Then I provided a wealth of information which gave the specifics of the
> functionality of SSRI's, and their efficacy as compared to placebos. How is
> it that you suggest this does not add to the conversation? I believe you
> misread my post, my friend.
>
> The placebo effect works with antidepressants because of somatic
> manifestation. The patient has psychological issues that they should be
> getting counseling for, analysis of some sort, but instead, they internalize
> those issue, and begin manifesting physical symptoms in their place. Once
> they are given a magic pill for those symptoms, the problem is solved...or
> not. Sometimes, they will need to go through a regimen of pills, or stronger
> pills...although upon further analysis of prescription history, many MD's
> are simply switching out the same type or category of drug (i.e. various
> types of fluoxetine (Prozac/Paxil), or substituting a Lamictal/Neurontin
> combo for a Topamaxx/Zoloft combo).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatoform_disorder
>
> Common Somatoform (or Somatization) disorders that you may be familiar with
> include Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. There is also strong
> research showing that chronic lower back pain without causal injury may be
> an SD.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Chris, I found your post informing D how wrong he is !
>
> > That really does not add to the discussion. How, according to you,
> > forget the statistics, does the the placebo work ?
>
> > On Aug 7, 7:29 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > What you saw on TV the other day was implicitly wrong. Prozan is an SSRI,
> > > and has a specific and complex brain functionality.
>
> > > Additionally, the citation you provided is cleverly styled to appear to
> > be
> > > the APA website, but by navigating to the root domain, we see that it is
> > in
> > > actuality a virulently anti-psych website:
>
> > >http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/
>
> > > This tends to color their data a bit, no?
>
> > > Here are some links to non-biased, peer reviewed studies at PubMed, the
> > > general repository for scientific research in the US, directly addressing
> > > the question of SSRI versus placebo.
>
> > >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11405969?ordinalpos=1&itool=Entrez...
>
> > >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19468281?ordinalpos=9&itool=Entrez...
>
> > >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18922243?ordinalpos=25&itool=Entre...
>
> > > Here's a great quote:
>
> > > "In a 10-week randomised, double-blind trial in patients with panic
> > > disorder, escitalopram (flexible doses 5-10 mg/d) was significantly more
> > > effective than placebo in reducing the panic attack frequency, with a
> > faster
> > > onset of action than citalopram."
>
> > > In fact, in all the studies that I've seen where the efficacy of the
> > > medication over placebo dropped to less than 30%, they were 'mild to
> > > moderate' cases to begin with.
>
> > > In other words, the Prozac didn't help much because there wasn't much of
> > a
> > > chemical problem there to help with. Those cases should have been
> > referred
> > > to psychologists, not psychiatrists. Blaming the medication for not
> > fixing a
> > > problem that is not chemical in nature is downright silly. There's been a
> > > cure for being stressed out and mildly depressed that humans have used
> > for a
> > > thousand years. It's called three friends and a Pub.
>
> > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:28 AM, deripsni <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > I found this article that claims that the placebo effect accounts for
> > > > 50% of the improvement in depressed patients taking anitdepressents,
> > > > while only 27% is due to the actual drug. I also saw something on TV
> > > > the other day stating that Prozac was basically a sugar coated
> > > > placebo. This seems to support a lot of what Molly is saying.
>
> > > >http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/1996-APA-placebo-vs-SSRI.htm-Hide
> > quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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