one.
On Aug 13, 9:44 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
> we are one
>
> On Aug 13, 11:45 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > You're welcome, Moly ! I understand. That's why I find you so
> > angelic, in a very complimentary sense. What you bring to the table is
> > complementary to what I put on there. There is no cause whatsoever for
> > you to feel guilty upon contradicting my view. Broadly, yours is the
> > heart, mine the intellect. Both see the same but perceive and express
> > differently.
>
> > Now, if you were to re - read my post above ...
>
> > On Aug 13, 7:40 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > perhaps this is where we differ, as I would not see an object, but
> > > life in being. For instance, my process would be: instead of feeling
> > > guilty for contradicting you, I would see (and feel) you in peace and
> > > harmony with my expression.
>
> > > On Aug 13, 10:36 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > " ... think something wonderful instead, ..."
>
> > > > In process terms, I would see it as starting at Clarity : seeing the
> > > > thing before us, as a fruit on one's palm, without it being embedded
> > > > within us and defining us even as we are looking at it.
>
> > > > On Aug 13, 7:12 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > I agree, Vam. Like fear, guilt and the more destructive emotions can
> > > > > be simple signals to get us to give attention to something that we are
> > > > > not seeing the life in, or judging to be less than, or diminishing us
> > > > > in some way. By recognizing it as a signal to think something
> > > > > wonderful instead, see the good in, redeem, we can leave the guilt
> > > > > behind and move on to something more peaceful and compassionate. This
> > > > > does not mean denying or ignoring. It means recognizing and
> > > > > redeeming.
>
> > > > > On Aug 13, 10:07 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > " ... one carefully analyze a situation before they start loading
> > > > > > this demoralizing emotion onto their shoulders."
>
> > > > > > D, you're right, guilt is never desirable, even if apparently
> > > > > > natural.
> > > > > > But that's the way we are. The good news is that we are allowed,
> > > > > > should try, and actually can be free of all guilt whatsoever. Guilt
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > there only for us to learn and change. There is no other value to
> > > > > > it.
>
> > > > > > " For example, if your wife asks you if you think she is fat, how do
> > > > > > you answer ?"
>
> > > > > > My answer is, and she knows : I see you just as you were the day I
> > > > > > first saw you ! That would also be the truth.
>
> > > > > > On Aug 13, 3:57 pm, deripsni <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Yes Vam, other peoples pain and suffering matter, but in my
> > > > > > > opinion,
> > > > > > > this should not be felt as guilt, maybe compassion or empathy. In
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > case of the doctor, it would be hard not to feel guilt if a
> > > > > > > mistake
> > > > > > > caused suffering or death for the patient, so you are right to
> > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > extent. Mistakes happen, and if it was because of sloppy work,
> > > > > > > definately guilt should be felt, so you are right.
>
> > > > > > > Protecting someone from rape should not be considered gratuitous
> > > > > > > violence, but taking the necessary actions to prevent suffering in
> > > > > > > another. This is a good thing, and if violence is required, it
> > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > be classified as a reactionary tool for protection and not
> > > > > > > reflective
> > > > > > > of breaking ones own personal code of behaviour.
>
> > > > > > > Sometimes a lie is a good thing, since the truth often hurts. If
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > is the case, the moral code of not intentionally hurting another
> > > > > > > should override the code of not lying. These lies are referred to
> > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > white lies, reflecting their lack of malice or "sin". For
> > > > > > > example, if
> > > > > > > your wife asks you if you think she is fat, how do you answer?
>
> > > > > > > Yes, there seems to be some exceptions to every rule, so thanks
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > pointing out my generalization. I still feel though, that many
> > > > > > > people
> > > > > > > feel guilt for the wrong reasons, so I suggest that one carefully
> > > > > > > analyze a situation before they start loading this demoralizing
> > > > > > > emotion onto their shoulders.
>
> > > > > > > On Aug 13, 6:30 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > " In my opinion, guilt should ONLY be felt is one has broken
> > > > > > > > their own
> > > > > > > > moral code. Mistakes in judgement should not be cause for guilt.
> > > > > > > > Unintentionally hurting another should not be cause for guilt.
> > > > > > > > Not
> > > > > > > > going to church should not be cause for guilt."
>
> > > > > > > > D, there could be exceptions. I can break my moral code of non -
> > > > > > > > violence, to prevent someone being raped. Or, I can tell a lie,
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > protect someone hiding in my house from being murdered. None of
> > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > may cause the least guilt in me. Similarly, a doctor may live
> > > > > > > > with a
> > > > > > > > deep sense of guilt everytime he passes by a suffering family,
> > > > > > > > rendered miserable by the death of their protector and provider
> > > > > > > > caused
> > > > > > > > by his mistaken judgement.
>
> > > > > > > > The code is one's own : abide by or break it as often as one
> > > > > > > > would, if
> > > > > > > > it affects no one. But consequences, resulting in happiness or
> > > > > > > > suffering to another / others, matter.
>
> > > > > > > > On Aug 13, 2:29 pm, deripsni <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > In my opinion, guilt should ONLY be felt is one has broken
> > > > > > > > > their own
> > > > > > > > > moral code. Mistakes in judgement should not be cause for
> > > > > > > > > guilt.
> > > > > > > > > Unintentionally hurting another should not be cause for
> > > > > > > > > guilt. Not
> > > > > > > > > going to church should not be cause for guilt. Breaking a law
> > > > > > > > > that one
> > > > > > > > > does not think is right should not be cause for guilt.
>
> > > > > > > > > If one develops a moral code, thus defining what they should
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > should not do, and then proceeds to consciously do something
> > > > > > > > > that they
> > > > > > > > > realize is against this code, the feelings of guilt should
> > > > > > > > > kick in.
> > > > > > > > > They should not cause depression however, but should activate
> > > > > > > > > a strong
> > > > > > > > > and determined motivation to repair any damage that may have
> > > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > done, and to reinforce the determination not to take this
> > > > > > > > > action ever
> > > > > > > > > again.
>
> > > > > > > > > Once this is done, the guilt should go away. Guilt can be a
> > > > > > > > > heavy
> > > > > > > > > burden to carry, but carrying the guilt instilled by others is
> > > > > > > > > emotional suicide. Set high moral goals, try to achieve them,
> > > > > > > > > and work
> > > > > > > > > hard to enforce them if the code is broken. Other than that,
> > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > HAPPY! ;-}
>
> > > > > > > > > On Aug 12, 10:20 pm, Matthijs <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Sometimes a human feels remorse guild or regret because of
> > > > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > actions they took in life (including myself) In my line of
> > > > > > > > > > work as a
> > > > > > > > > > psychiatrist I am confronted with these emotions of mankind
> > > > > > > > > > on a every
> > > > > > > > > > day basis. One of all is the ability of humans to feel
> > > > > > > > > > guild, for
> > > > > > > > > > there whole life, it always integers me how depressions
> > > > > > > > > > walk hand in
> > > > > > > > > > hand with fear. I did some study in depressions and animals
> > > > > > > > > > were
> > > > > > > > > > showing the same depression reactions in stressful hopeless
> > > > > > > > > > situations
> > > > > > > > > > as humans as a way to survive. Nevertheless I was wondering
> > > > > > > > > > what the
> > > > > > > > > > functions are of these feelings and emotions for a human
> > > > > > > > > > being in your
> > > > > > > > > > visions.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Take a guess,
> > > > > > > > > > Matthijs- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
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> > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
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> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
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> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
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> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
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> - Show quoted text -
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