Just read this article. Some very good ideas about Health Care Reform. This actually would be change I could believe in. Starts off with a quote from my favorite living British PM.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342170072865070.html#mod=djemWMP dj On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Don Johnson<[email protected]> wrote: > Hey Orn, thanks for engaging. I have some responses. ;-) > > It is so strange that we see the world in such a different way Don! > Perhaps I didn’t mean not-for-profit when it comes to doctors. England > has a system where the MDs do quite well with socialized medicine…so > does Canada…and, if my memory is correct, France is good too. Many > other countries have such a system and the vast majority of the > doctors are fine with it. Perhaps you only know a few spoiled > brats? ;-) > > It's not strange at all. We get our info from different sources and > have lead entirely different lives. We disagree on almost everything > and this doesn't surprise me. It's gruff that gives me pause with his > dead on insight on some matters and incorrect opinions(i.e., not like > mine) on others. > > Maybe docs are well taken care of in England, I don't know. I know > they have private practices that cater to the wealthy that get much > better care then those on the public system. When I see some World > Organization(i.e., socialist) rating the health care of countries I > always take it with a grain of salt. I believe and so do most of the > people I know(including doctors) that we have the best quality care in > the world right here in the USA. That said, in discussions with > doctors only one has complained about Health Care Reform. He's my > parent's pain management Dr. and doesn't seem like much of a brat but > I could be wrong. His specialty along with his client base is likely > to disappear under a single-payer system. They'll be referred to > end-of-life management. What bureaucrat would sanction easing the > pain of someone that is a drag on the system rather then an asset? > Most Dr.s will probably see their client base increased with the > number of new patients freshly insured so I perfectly understand why > they'll like the new system. I'm not sure how well the hospitals and > future patients will do, however. Check this out. > > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574344342571670158.html > > I'm not keen on full deregulation. Too many crackpot would-be > doctors out there. I think the medical profession does a fair job of > policing themselves and I think we should retain laws that require > certain practices to be carried out by real doctors. > > Don, what have you seen? As far as I know there is no final proposal > ready for the president to sign yet, is there? As to the tax payers, > yes, perhaps the top 2 % will have to go back to paying their fair > share, but when all is taken into account, the costs will be less to > the rest of us. Hmmm, sounds like Texas has returned to the > confederacy, no? ;-) Financial slavery is just that…slavery as far as > I can tell. Regular payments my A$$!!! > > I keep hearing this defense. "Their is no bill for the President to > support!" "Ha, checkmate! All your arguments are straw man because > the President has no opinion!" Well I say that's a bunch of malarkey. > His support of a single-payer system is well documented. Add that to > what appears to be a free-reign policy with regards to the House and > outtacontrol Pelosi and a reasonable person would assume he supports > what his fellow super-libs support. The costs will not be less for me > or for most of the tax payers I know with employer sponsored health > care. I suspect they will discontinue service soon after government > run health care becomes available. It is unlikely I'll see a raise to > compensate. > > I'm old school. I think when you borrow money you should pay it back > with interest and when someone offers you help you reciprocate asap > with more generosity then they initially showed you. People that have > the ability to pay money back and choose not to are deadbeats. Yes, > I've known people like this. I am very surprised that in your long > life you haven't. You have been blessed with the people you've met. > I'm jealous. > > dj > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:42 AM, > ornamentalmind<[email protected]> wrote: >> >> “Here's the problem. Ok, one of the problems with not-for-profit >> medicine. Doctors that excel usually expect some form of reward for >> their excellence. A warm fuzzy feeling that you are helping people >> isn't enough for most people. They want money and lots of it.” – DJ >> >> It is so strange that we see the world in such a different way Don! >> Perhaps I didn’t mean not-for-profit when it comes to doctors. England >> has a system where the MDs do quite well with socialized medicine…so >> does Canada…and, if my memory is correct, France is good too. Many >> other countries have such a system and the vast majority of the >> doctors are fine with it. Perhaps you only know a few spoiled >> brats? ;-) >> >> “If you look at the quality of the work or product of something that >> is free and compare it to that of work or product that is done/made >> for the purpose of profit you will see what I mean. Compare a free >> clinic with a for-profit clinic. Compare a British hospital with one >> of our private hospitals right here in Houston. It's not like that >> 100% of the time but on average I'd rather pay for my health care. >> You get what you pay for. An exception might be the Shriner's kid's >> hospital here in Houston.(and probably other cities) Surgeons donate >> their time and services here frequently to get that warm, fuzzy >> feeling. It supplements the even warmer, fuzzier feeling they get >> cashing their checks from their private practice. “ =- DJ >> >> >> You seem to be conflating numerous entirely different systems Don. No >> one is proposing a system that will not pay health professionals.(If >> they want, they can still do pro bono work too!) And, as I’m sure you >> know, the majority of MDs and Nurses are for Single Payer as the best >> system. They just want to take care of people, not the insurance >> companies and filling out forms. They do not want to have to ask if a >> person has insurance before they treat them. Such a system will pay >> the doctors and nurses what they need. It just won’t be so good for >> the current stock holders of health insurance companies and their >> CES’s. While I care about them perhaps they can find an honorable job. >> (excuse the hyperbole there!) >> >> “As for lowering the cost I have six words. Tort reform, tort reform >> and tort reform. With a congress packed full of lawyers this ain't >> likely. I'd put this group of lobbyists right behind Teacher's >> Unions >> in how well they are taken care of by our elected officials. So since >> tort reform is but a dream I have what congress could do is open up >> the health insurance business to competition. Not with government >> subsidized Medicare or Medicaid but with each other. Allow folks to >> get insurance from other states. Deregulate it somewhat to allow >> people to chose the amount of coverage they want.” – DJ >> >> So Don, what about full deregulation? Sounds good. And, throw in what >> the Congress uses as well as the military and medicare….most western >> countries have a well working system of health care that includes >> state sponsored care. The result is that no longer do people die >> because they don’t have insurance or even if they do! Tort reform? >> Perhaps. But this is far away from the real issue now. Some would >> suggest you are dragging a pink mackerel across the road! :-D Just say >> ‘Yes’ Don, to health care that everyone can afford. Let people decide >> whether they wish to line the pockets of stockholders and CEOs or just >> get taken care of if they get sick. Seems fair, no? Full deregulation >> would be a great thing. >> >> “I agree costs are high. I have no problem in Congress addressing >> this issue but what I've seen so far will cause more problems then it >> solves and will probably cost more for the tax payers. As an aside, >> here in Texas if you owe medical bills you can take your time paying >> them off without penalty of extra charges or added interest. So if >> you get nailed with a 60,000 dollar surgery and rehab bill you can >> spread that out and just pay 100 bucks a month until it's paid off or >> you die. The key is regular payments. Isn't that right Slip? “ – DJ >> >> Don, what have you seen? As far as I know there is no final proposal >> ready for the president to sign yet, is there? As to the tax payers, >> yes, perhaps the top 2 % will have to go back to paying their fair >> share, but when all is taken into account, the costs will be less to >> the rest of us. Hmmm, sounds like Texas has returned to the >> confederacy, no? ;-) Financial slavery is just that…slavery as far as >> I can tell. Regular payments my A$$!!! >> >> “Unfortunately, one of the reasons costs are so high is the incredible >> amount of deadbeats running around. It's disgusting. I'd investigate >> maybe having a couple of big, burly orderlies to check folks for >> insurance, credit cards or briefcases full of cash and bounce anyone >> that doesn't have these things back out in the street on their ear. >> That ought to bring costs down. “ – DJ >> >> Deadbeats? Are you kidding? Do you personally know these people? I >> don’t. In fact, decades ago, the indigent (deadbeats in your parlance >> perhaps) were written off by public hospitals…even private ones! Today >> the bottom line has pushed its way too far ahead of any line of >> health. Your fantasy, as entertaining as it may be, only obfuscates. >> The USA is down to something like 38th in the world when it comes to >> health care but it is number one in costs. Without having to look any >> further, it is clear that a big change must happen and soon. Doctors, >> Nurses, even congressmen are afraid of a revolution if this doesn’t >> happen as I hear it. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 12, 3:13 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Here's the problem. Ok, one of the problems with not-for-profit >>> medicine. Doctors that excel usually expect some form of reward for >>> their excellence. A warm fuzzy feeling that you are helping people >>> isn't enough for most people. They want money and lots of it. If you >>> look at the quality of the work or product of something that is free >>> and compare it to that of work or product that is done/made for the >>> purpose of profit you will see what I mean. Compare a free clinic >>> with a for-profit clinic. Compare a British hospital with one of our >>> private hospitals right here in Houston. It's not like that 100% of >>> the time but on average I'd rather pay for my health care. You get >>> what you pay for. An exception might be the Shriner's kid's hospital >>> here in Houston.(and probably other cities) Surgeons donate their >>> time and services here frequently to get that warm, fuzzy feeling. It >>> supplements the even warmer, fuzzier feeling they get cashing their >>> checks from their private practice. >>> >>> As for lowering the cost I have six words. Tort reform, tort reform >>> and tort reform. With a congress packed full of lawyers this ain't >>> likely. I'd put this group of lobbyists right behind Teacher's Unions >>> in how well they are taken care of by our elected officials. So since >>> tort reform is but a dream I have what congress could do is open up >>> the health insurance business to competition. Not with government >>> subsidized Medicare or Medicaid but with each other. Allow folks to >>> get insurance from other states. Deregulate it somewhat to allow >>> people to chose the amount of coverage they want. >>> >>> I agree costs are high. I have no problem in Congress addressing this >>> issue but what I've seen so far will cause more problems then it >>> solves and will probably cost more for the tax payers. As an aside, >>> here in Texas if you owe medical bills you can take your time paying >>> them off without penalty of extra charges or added interest. So if >>> you get nailed with a 60,000 dollar surgery and rehab bill you can >>> spread that out and just pay 100 bucks a month until it's paid off or >>> you die. The key is regular payments. Isn't that right Slip? >>> Unfortunately, one of the reasons costs are so high is the incredible >>> amount of deadbeats running around. It's disgusting. I'd investigate >>> maybe having a couple of big, burly orderlies to check folks for >>> insurance, credit cards or briefcases full of cash and bounce anyone >>> that doesn't have these things back out in the street on their ear. >>> That ought to bring costs down. >>> >>> dj >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:01 PM, BB47<[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> > Yes, I think health care is one of those things that should not be for >>> > profit, even though I am a believer in Capitalism. And I am not a >>> > believer in price controls but that too seems to be the only viable >>> > way to control the costs >>> >>> > On Aug 12, 1:53 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> "...I don't want to get into the debate out the "blame" of the health >>> >> care system but without insurance anything major can wipe you out over >>> >> here. ..." - BB47 >>> >>> >> Truth be told...even IF one has health insurance, the odds are that >>> >> anything even remotely near being 'major' can and will wipe you out >>> >> anyway. >>> >> The term 'insurance' appears to only apply to the corporations these >>> >> days...they are assured to make a killing! >>> >> On Aug 12, 9:56 am, BB47 <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >> > Well our health care system over here as you know is messed up beyond >>> >> > belief. That would have cost me $3000. I don't want to get into the >>> >> > debate out the "blame" of the health care system but without insurance >>> >> > anything major can wipe you out over here. When a major operation >>> >> > costs half a million dollars? You better have insurance. A friend at >>> >> > work broke her leg. Sixty grand. I am not going to argue anymore on >>> >> > it (you might be relieved!) Talking politics and religion is said to >>> >> > be the worst possible topics to discuss. I dropped one. One less >>> >> > step in a bad direction is an improvement isn't it? >>> >>> >> > On Aug 12, 9:16 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >> > > If it is not food she is not interested,, she is good that way. >>> >> > > Allan >>> >>> >> > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:06 PM, BB47 <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >> > > > On Aug 12, 1:53 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> > > > > Well for me I would be the loser so far over the last seven >>> >> > > > > years has >>> >> > > > cost >>> >> > > > > me less than 80 euros per year >>> >> > > > > Allan >>> >>> >> > > > Just don't let your dog eat a nasty kitchen sponge that fell off >>> >> > > > the >>> >> > > > counter, or the time she chewed the metal parts off my jacket to >>> >> > > > get >>> >> > > > to the treats I left in there. >>> >>> >> > > -- >>> >> > > ( >>> >> > > ) >>> >> > > I_D Allan- Hide quoted text - >>> >>> >> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >>> >>> >> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >>> >>> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >>> >>> - Show quoted text - >> >> >> > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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