On 28 Aug, 13:53, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Yet Pat if I belive it, and by that I mean I do not belive what you
> have layed out for us, and this never changes for me then by your own
> system this must be true, by which I mean that it is correct for me
> not to place my belife in this system. It is my unfolding 'awarness'
> of the 'truth' that this idea is false, then in reality it must be so.
>
If you do not believe me and this never changes for you, then your
awareness has not increased to envelop the truth. Whilst it may well
be true that it is not correct for you to place your belief in my
system (by God's will), then, for you, you will have to find another
way. I have not stated that this is 'the only way to get to the
One'. Many paths lead to the One, and mine surely does.
Perhaps I'll paraphrase Molly. If you do not accept the co-
creator role, that won't prevent you from BEING a co-creator, it will
only mean that you act without knowing the true impetus behind your
actions. I.e., that they are, in fact, God's actions. If you, as co-
creator and builder of the universe reject what I have said, that
won't prevent it from being the cornerstone in its time.
> Or lets take it the other way around. If it is my unfolding
> 'awareness' of the 'truth' that this idea is true, then it must be so.
>
> Do you see what I'm getting at Pat?
>
I see that you are struggling with your concept of self. That is
extremely admirable. I've been there. When you lose yourself, you
will find your Self. And this is not a new teaching. Find it in:
One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth. Creative Being
Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Timeless One, Beyond
Birth, Self-Existent.
find it in:
Chant, and meditate on the One God, who permeates and pervades the
many beings of the whole Universe. God created it, and God spreads
through it everywhere. Everywhere I look, I see God. The Perfect Lord
is perfectly pervading and permeating the water, the land and the sky;
there is no place without Him."
—Guru Granth Sahib, Page 782
> As to my imagining them, surely it is not I but God that is doing
> that?
>
Yes. Absolutely. But do you believe that? Can you handle that?
Perhaps now you can understand how Jacob became Israel...through his
wrestling with God.
> On 28 Aug, 13:38, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 28 Aug, 13:23, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Heh is it wicked then of me to ask Molly, what if your awareness
> > > changes to reveal that Pat's ideas are wrong?
>
> > That, my friend, whilst in the realms of possibility (as proven by
> > your imagining them) are not a part of the realm of reality. That
> > which is both imaginable and real is greater than that which is only
> > imaginable.
>
> > > On 28 Aug, 13:16, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > "What is that, Pat, all those other events that were equal
>
> > > > > or even better alternates that did not happen ? Where are they ? Why
> > > > > are they ? What happens to them ? Are they nothing, meaningless, to
> > > > > be purged away from within us ?"
>
> > > > As I understand it, Vam, they remain in the realm of possibility and,
> > > > as your viewpoint brings them into your experience, a change in
> > > > viewpoint or awareness will manifest the possibility into your
> > > > experience. If your view includes what some would call cosmic
> > > > consciousness, or the entire realm of possibility, you will bring this
> > > > into your experience - the possibility of the god within you - the
> > > > one. What you do - is change your view, or awareness.
>
> > > > On Aug 28, 7:20 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > On 28 Aug, 11:06, Vam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Good, Pat ! Indeed, Kingdom of God. I understand your saying : It
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > One. It is God. It is Kingdom. It is I. That makes four - One, God,
> > > > > > Kingdom, and I. Now what ? You'd say, it is One. Then, why were /
> > > > > > are the other three there ? What good are they, the purpose ? Are
> > > > > > they or are they not ?
>
> > > > > You are counting Maya. And you could go on endlessly and affect very
> > > > > little.
>
> > > > > > On the other hand, whether it is four, three or one, it is I in
> > > > > > command now, facing the music, standing, retreating or advancing,
> > > > > > feeling, choking on my breath, dealing with my blood pressure,
> > > > > > thinking, confused, in doubt, knowing, analysing, having to see,
> > > > > > deal
> > > > > > with, decide, not confident, weak, happy, sad, noise, pollution,
> > > > > > poverty, greed, good ...
>
> > > > > Out of your own mouth: "having to see...". Where is your choice,
> > > > > there? For a moment, your hand betrayed your view of you. What
> > > > > choice did you have when you were thrust into this life? When did you
> > > > > 'acquire' your perceived ability to choose? It is not you, but the
> > > > > One that DOES all these things.
>
> > > > > >It is I, with the choice and the power to
> > > > > > do or not to do, now. There is no automatic connection with all of
> > > > > > that idea of yours - four, three or one. None of that helps me with
> > > > > > this task I have before me. Nothing you say or have advised us to
> > > > > > obtain, in terms of idea or understanding, enters the picture
> > > > > > unless I
> > > > > > reflect upon it four, nine or seventeen times. Which luxury I do not
> > > > > > have. It's to be done now. I even know I need to " do unto others,
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > I do unto myself." But, everything is unclear, much even opposed to
> > > > > > me doing that. It just does not happen. It needs to be done,
> > > > > > everytime. Just doesn't happen, four, three or one notwithstanding !
>
> > > > > Then make it so. If you know the One, you would know I'm telling
> > > > > you the truth. If it takes reflection, so be it. You have all the
> > > > > time you need and you can do nothing to gather any more to yourself.
>
> > > > > > The crucial role of I, even to me, is stark, direct and obvious. I'd
> > > > > > be much helped if I can reach within me, this I am forever intimate
> > > > > > and immediately one with, and find something to clarify this world
> > > > > > within I am faced with, lends me the courage to step up on to doing
> > > > > > what I need to, and strengthen me for the vicious consequences I
> > > > > > might
> > > > > > face for my conduct. I'd like me to help myself, empower myself, and
> > > > > > others if I could. The One, God, Kingdom could help. But, if they
> > > > > > too
> > > > > > mean what they've laid down and value what I need to ( unto
> > > > > > others ... ), they'd converge on me, in my decision and my action,
> > > > > > anyway. They'd be false if they did not, isn't it ? It is I who
> > > > > > must
> > > > > > act and live with the consequences, and it is ' I ' I must summon
> > > > > > forth the strength and conviction from.
>
> > > > > And you must, ultimately, know that it is THAT and not you. That
> > > > > Thou Art. I tell you nothing new, I only reinforce it. We each find
> > > > > the will within, of course, because there is no other. Whilst you may
> > > > > not like the taste of this medicine, perhaps you, were not in need of
> > > > > it. There are many ways to the One, but they all start and end with
> > > > > the realisation that it is not 'us' but the One. That We Are. Each
> > > > > of us. Everyone.
>
> > > > > > The other, practical and philosophical, aspect of your idea is that
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > has no place for all the events that do not manifest, happen, are
> > > > > > excluded in favour of the one event that does at any space - time
> > > > > > coordinate. What is that, Pat, all those other events that were
> > > > > > equal
> > > > > > or even better alternates that did not happen ? Where are they ?
> > > > > > Why
> > > > > > are they ? What happens to them ? Are they nothing, meaningless, to
> > > > > > be purged away from within us ?
>
> > > > > They belong to the set of things that did not happen, or the set of
> > > > > things that are not happening or the set of things that will not
> > > > > happen. They exist in the Mind of God, to which you have access
> > > > > through your consciousness, but they are not a part of space-time.
> > > > > Their existence is eternal in the Calabi-Yau. I have said this
> > > > > before, too, and was not comprehended.
>
> > > > > > I am not looking for a ' pat ' response, Pat. But I do want you to
> > > > > > appreciate these issues. Reality must spring from what is real to
> > > > > > us.
>
> > > > > Rather, you should accept reality as it is. Reality springs from
> > > > > the One, not from anything else, as there is nothing else. You make
> > > > > the same mistake in thinking that St. Anselm did by making the
> > > > > perceiver different than that which is perceived. This makes a
> > > > > division between you and the One. Know that all we say comes from the
> > > > > One, and with these words, I have NOT made the One a liar.
>
> > > > > > On Aug 28, 1:16 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On 27 Aug, 18:37, Vam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > " Try as you might, you will only ever perform one event at any
> > > > > > > > given
> > > > > > > > place/time."
>
> > > > > > > > You mean, Pat, that we cannot move both our hands at the same
> > > > > > > > time,
> > > > > > > > causing two events at the same time ?
>
> > > > > > > That's correct. Threy are separated by space-time not just by
> > > > > > > space. They are very close to one another, but they do not
> > > > > > > occupy the
> > > > > > > same space-time or you would perceive them as one. Time is
> > > > > > > joined to
> > > > > > > space and if you perceive a spatial difference, then you must
> > > > > > > admit a
> > > > > > > temporal one as well.
>
> > > > > > > > From what I've seen in yoga, sports, talent and reality show
> > > > > > > > programmes on television, I visualise people with the ability
> > > > > > > > to move
> > > > > > > > their two legs, mouth, -----, or sundry other appendages at the
> > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > time ! All this, multiple events at the same time, while being
> > > > > > > > at the
> > > > > > > > same extended point in space.
>
> > > > > > > You allow the machinery of your body and its rate of perception
> > > > > > > with the reality of the matter. All things seemingly separated by
> > > > > > > space are, in fact, separated by space-time. We've known this to
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > true for almost 100 years.
>
> > > > > > > > More importantly, apart from rooting the old commandments in
> > > > > > > > scientific perspective, what can the man in the street reach
> > > > > > > > for in
> > > > > > > > the stringy energy theory, in terms of values for action or
> > > > > > > > thought
> > > > > > > > and decision - making he's called upon to deliver on in his day
> > > > > > > > to day
> > > > > > > > life ... choice, will, discrimination, effort, behaviour,
> > > > > > > > relationship, profession, creativity, etc.
>
> > > > > > > Simply put, my friend, he can reach for the Kingdom of God.
> > > > > > > When
> > > > > > > you accept that it is God that DOES, you will understand that God
> > > > > > > rules. And when God rules in your heart, the Kingdom (the
> > > > > > > rulership)
> > > > > > > of God is established within you.
>
> > > > > > > > In other words, what does the theory have for the common man in
> > > > > > > > terms
> > > > > > > > of strength, clarity and direction, if one cannot appreciate the
> > > > > > > > rarified mathematics involved in it ?
>
> > > > > > > It leads him to the Kingdom of God and it makes him understand
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > 'that which you do to others, you have done to yourself', as
> > > > > > > there is
> > > > > > > only One.
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
""Minds Eye"" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
