It's now about perspective, Lee ... our individual take. What you mean by consciousness is, to me, the " idea of individuated ' I ' in consciousness."
What you consider as ( full and final ) consciousness, the ' I,' is in my perspective just a form in memory - ground - of - consciousness, which again is in ... I have no terms to express ... pure, undifferentiated consciousness. On Sep 10, 5:43 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > Ahh many thanks Vam. > > So you seem to be saying two things here seemingly contradicting each > other. > > Yes you agree that without water then unconciouness can occour, but no > it is not real 'conciousness' that you loose. which prompts the > question, what do you define conciouness as? > > I have offered my own definition right at the top there in what is > currently post #6, I have asid: > > 'So I would say that I explain conciouness as a property of the > phycial brain, and I would say that to be concioues means merely to > know that you exist as an independant enterty, and can tell that there > are others around who like wise exists as individual entities.' > > Which shows a clear distinction between conciouness, and what it means > to be concious. Would you agree or disagree with either of these? > > To me if we use the definition above then lossing conciousness means > to loose ones sense of oneself. Not as in dreaming, when we dream we > are most often in our own dreams. I remember once the very first time > I went to donate plasma. > > I was on the machine and had been ther for abot 10 mins, I was reading > a book and eating a chicken sandwhich, the nurse approached me, and I > must have been looking a little white as I clearly remember her > saying: > > 'Are you alr...' > > And then I lost conciousness, I fainted, I was only out for a few > seconds(according to the nurse) but I remember nowt about being out. > This is what I mean by lossing or falling into unconciousness. You > mean something other than this? > > On 10 Sep, 13:24, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I will answer the question. > > > Q : " Do you belive that if you go without water for long enough you > > will NOT fall into unconciousness ?" > > > A : Yes, YOU ( the idea of individuated ' I ' in consciousness ) may > > disappear, which is what I understand of your expression " fall(ing) > > into unconsciousness." To a yogi, who is trained into dealing with > > such experiential phenomena, it ( the ' I ' ) may not so disappear. > > > I cannot be more clear than this. So, if you want more, you 'll have > > to find it in your own understanding and realisation. That is what I > > 'd suggested in my previous post. > > > And yes, Lee, you are a nice chap ! > > > On Sep 10, 4:43 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > Sorry Vam, I think you are stalling here. > > > > My questions to you have not been hard to figure out, I know I am > > > dyslexic, but I am not stupid, I can't spell and my hand writing is, I > > > can garentee you the worst you will see, but I do comprehend the > > > English language, I do know how to write, I have phrased my questions > > > in a way that there can be no misunderstandings between us. > > > > You sir know exactly what page I am on, I aksed you a direct question, > > > you answered, and I wanted double check that answer. Now when I > > > attempt to do that, you give me rubbish about nails and hammers and > > > advise me to go away and think a bit more. > > > > I smell evasion Vam, however because I am a nice chap, I'll ask for > > > that clarifcation again. > > > > Do you belive that if you go without water for long enough you will > > > NOT fall into unconciousness? > > > > Now that is a very straight forward question, please do answer it. > > > > On 10 Sep, 12:32, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > It seems you are lost, Lee ! Give yourself time, and perhaps some > > > > more. You are attempting in a rush to nail down ' something,' as if > > > > your life depends on it, without catching hold of that which is to be > > > > nailed and without the hammer with which to nail it. > > > > > I advise you re - read my responses. I am implying distinctions > > > > between consciousness, forms of perceptions arising from consciousness > > > > that we perceive, and the instruments of perception. > > > > > Then perhaps you may specify what you are talking about, without us > > > > being on different pages / books ? > > > > > On Sep 10, 4:09 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Okay let me get this right Vam, you say that if you go without water > > > > > for long enough that you will NOT fall unconcious as conciouness does > > > > > not reside in the brain? > > > > > > On 10 Sep, 12:05, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes. The phenomenon pertains to forms perceived and the instruments > > > > > > of > > > > > > perception ... senses and the mind. > > > > > > > On Sep 10, 3:49 pm, "[email protected]" > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > So you do not think it possible that if a person goes without > > > > > > > water > > > > > > > for long enough that they will fall unconcious? > > > > > > > > On 10 Sep, 11:40, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Consciousness, No. The forms perceived in consciousness, Yes. > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > functioning of instruments of perception, Yes. > > > > > > > > > On Sep 10, 3:07 pm, "[email protected]" > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > That really has no bearing on the matter Vam. You admit that > > > > > > > > > going > > > > > > > > > without water affects concioussness, yes? > > > > > > > > > > We all know how important water is in keeping the body working > > > > > > > > > properly, yes? > > > > > > > > > > We can certianly then infer that if conciousness is effected > > > > > > > > > by a lack > > > > > > > > > of water, as are all biological functions, then conciousness > > > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > > function of biology, yes or no? > > > > > > > > > > On 10 Sep, 10:41, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > " conciousness must be part of the brain, must be part of > > > > > > > > > > our biology > > > > > > > > > > otherwise how would a lack of water for 30 days affect it? " > > > > > > > > > > > Children are affected by lightening, even traumatised by > > > > > > > > > > earthquakes. > > > > > > > > > > That does not mean children are born of lightening or > > > > > > > > > > earthquakes, > > > > > > > > > > Lee ! > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 10, 2:35 pm, "[email protected]" > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Vam did you not notcie this bit: > > > > > > > > > > > > '(apart from our bodies dependancy upon it of course)' > > > > > > > > > > > > Now taking this and what you have said here then it shows > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > conciousness must be part of the brain, must be part of > > > > > > > > > > > our biology > > > > > > > > > > > otherwise how would a lack of water for 30 days affect it? > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9 Sep, 17:33, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try using your mind after 30 days of going without > > > > > > > > > > > > water, Lee ! > > > > > > > > > > > > You'll understand how important water is to cognitive > > > > > > > > > > > > access to forms > > > > > > > > > > > > of consciousness. The last part was deliberately > > > > > > > > > > > > expressed, as I do > > > > > > > > > > > > not believe that nothing has anything to with > > > > > > > > > > > > consciousness ( pure, > > > > > > > > > > > > like space ) per se but only with forms perceived in > > > > > > > > > > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 9, 6:20 pm, "[email protected]" > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm there seems some flaw here, now what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahhh yes! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I was to suggest that to manipulate where a car > > > > > > > > > > > > > goes you need to > > > > > > > > > > > > > use the stearing wheel, that sounds about right yes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was to further say that a stearing wheel does not > > > > > > > > > > > > > in fact stear the > > > > > > > > > > > > > car, it only manipulates where the car can be > > > > > > > > > > > > > steared, then maybe > > > > > > > > > > > > > you'll begin to see what is wrong with your statement > > > > > > > > > > > > > above? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we can manipulate our conciousness via the use of > > > > > > > > > > > > > electricity and > > > > > > > > > > > > > chemicals, then it is safe to assume that our > > > > > > > > > > > > > conciousness uses both > > > > > > > > > > > > > electricity and chemicals in order to work, yes or no? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or put in another way. If I drink a glass of water > > > > > > > > > > > > > and notice no > > > > > > > > > > > > > change in the way my conciousness is working then it > > > > > > > > > > > > > is safe to > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggest that water is not a mechinism that > > > > > > > > > > > > > conciousness uses in order > > > > > > > > > > > > > to work.(apart from our bodies dependancy upon it of > > > > > > > > > > > > > course) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5 Sep, 14:48, Justintruth <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These experiments lend a lot of experimental > > > > > > > > > > > > > > support to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consciousness being primarily chemical and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > electrical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually they do not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They just lend a lot of experimental support to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consciousness being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > manipulate-able through chemical and electrical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > manipulation of ones > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we already knew that. All it takes is to ingest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a beer (or two), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or -and I am not an advocate- ingest some LSD, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you will know.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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