Not embracing an anthropomorphic ‘god’, I find it difficult to participate in this conference about prayer. And I and I know others here hold that intentional contemplation/meditation etc. can and does produce positive result(s).
http://www.apa.org/monitor/dec03/tibetan.html An older view… http://consc.net/mindpapers Current resources On Sep 10, 12:22 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > "a God who is omnipotent and omniscient and who is involved in an > individual > personal relationship with all human beings" > > I totally agree with this, Francis, but not with anything you say > afterward. Why? Because I do not see god as separate from myself, or > myself separate from my experience. Therefore, someone or thing > outside of myself is not effecting my experience completely external > to me. I do understand that most folks understand God as objective, > external to self and able to effect experience in ways that are > separate from self. This is not what I believe. > > I believe that God is an aspect of myself that is: as Vam says, the > ineffable, undifferentiated, and as Pat says, all possibility, and as > Justin has said, the uncreated (and created.) and as you say, > omnipotent, omniscient and directly involved in a personal > relationship with my individual self and all human beings, and, at > this point, I am one with all life. The dynamic between my God and my > individual self manifests my experience according to my viewpoint > (beliefs.) One aspect of myself cannot be separated from the other, > God, Christ (all humanity), me, my experience ... it all plays out in > concert...manfests through me into my experience. At the point that I > and my experience are one, my experience is non dual. > > Therefore, to me, prayer may just be "the language of God" or the > Logos, as it moves between you and I. It connects, it moves, it > manifests experience. > > To ask if God changes his plan, to me, is to ask if I have changed my > relationship with God so as to effect a manifest change in my > experience. God doesn't change, all possibility is all possibility, > all inclusive Through prayer, I change my viewpoint, or my > relationship to God, and my experience changes because new possibility > comes into it as a result of the change in me. > > On Sep 10, 1:25 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I'm taking the liberty of starting a new thread on this one, taking up > > a theme which cropped up in the "Homage to Neil" thread as a result of > > a half throw-away comment I made about my extreme skepticism about the > > efficacy of prayer. > > > First, definitions:http://freedictionary.org/?Query=prayer&button=Search > > > For an initial working model I'll take the following Webster [1913] > > definition, "The act of addressing supplication to a divinity, > > especially to the true God; the offering of adoration, confession, > > supplication, and thanksgiving to the Supreme Being." > > > There are a number of aspects here which are - for believers - > > relatively unproblematic; adoration, confession and thanksgiving. Even > > from the point of view of a non-believer, I can accept the idea of > > positive psychological feedback from such action, a kind of inner > > positive loop which need not be dependent on the actual existence of > > the deity being prayed to. The issue I want to address here is that of > > prayer as supplication; asking God for something, requesting God to > > influence specific outcomes of specific processes. > > > The major Abrahamic monotheistic systems all posit a God who is > > omnipotent and omniscient and who is involved in an individual > > personal relationship with all human beings (or, at least, those who > > profess belief and commitment to him/her). To me, the idea that this > > God would concretely intervene to change the course of events as a > > result of a particular request by a believer seems to be riddled with > > contradictions. Does God change his divine plan as a result of the > > prayer? If, following the conventional religious models, God loves the > > believer and directs things for his/her ultimate good, will he/she not > > do this regardless of whether the believer prays or not? > > > And, while you're thinlking about this, a little musical > > contribution :-) > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He4NFXIKQkk > > > Francis- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
