One has no choice but to generalize and you in your own way are establishing "normal" parameters when we know that people grow at varying ages. There may be an average age but that does not establish norm. One simple look at society will reveal the fact that people at any and all ages are still continuously programmed by the external. Music, fashion, politics, racism etc. you name it, people are flocking one way or another due to external influence, that is the foundation of commercialism and the bombardment of advertising. Overall your reading too much into my comment, perhaps because you are a bit rattled. You assert grand design and then toss in karma and bad luck. I'm not blaming god for anything but attribute all things in life to energy not deity. People are born into circumstance not karma or bad luck and past life regressions, karma, luck, destiny etc. are all human theoretical/hypothetical concepts. When I say that people are living the same experience whether they believe or not, it should be evident that I am referring to our existence here and the similarity of it all. All the people attending church in union all leave to live their disparate lives which concludes that belief doesn't really change anything except in the mind of the believer. The experiences in this life are the same whether of not one has a belief in God. You can't say that happiness, joy, pain, suffering, wealth or poverty are all dependent on a belief in a deity. Atheists hurt and laugh just as much as Christians, so what are you getting at? It's the same for the believer and non believer. You are wrong to assume that my observations are a reflection of anger, I could care less, I'm ambivalent in many ways as you should already know, I separate myself from the external, I'm not part of it or should say I avoid it as much as possible. I know it's there but I don't have to take part in it. We've had this discussion before. Your subjective approach is understandable and I agree that we can create our own experience as in someone in prison might feel like their in heaven, but the fact remains, the prison houses believers and non believers alike so they are all sharing the same experience, "prisoner". The Air France plane crash killed hundreds of people, do you think their belief made any difference? I'm not worried about anyone trying to change me and don't lack the skills to keep them at bay, I'm comfortable in my own skin as I know you are in yours and some others in theirs. It's about belief not really making a difference other that that in one's own mind. Think about it early in the morning when the alarm clock goes off and you don't feel like getting up.
On Sep 27, 8:34 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > "Humans unfortunately are subject to programing by the > external world and without having knowledge of our internal, we are > doomed to suffer through life, through error." Sd > > Again, you generalize and oversimplify. Adolescence is the normal > stage for us to begin to understand that we are not subject to > programing by the external world. Until then, our families usually > provide the protection necessary to protect us from any doom or > suffering that may incur. Our childhood is the place to explore the > world and begin to understand how our discoveries and choices effect > our experience. This is a grand design, one that allows most of us > time to find our own empowerment and begin to create lives that allow > us harmony. Of course, if we were not fortunate enough to have been > born to such design, whether by karma or bad luck, thenwe did not have > the protection of a family, and felt the harshness of the external > before we understood the workings of our own internal. Many folks > like this are stuck in this emotional adolescence, blaming god and > everyone else for all the bad that happens to them and all the evils > of the world. Even under these circumstances, a change in viewpoint > and an understanding that doom and suffering come to us through our > own perception is possible though the hard work of self examination or > epiphany. > > Do we have to have a God? I believe God is. God is within us all. > Not all of us recognize or understand that it is this God within us > that creates our experience according to our own filters of belief and > viewpoint. Our experience is created whether we recognize this aspect > of it or not. I believe that the quality of our experience improves > with peace, harmony and love, if we do. Does this mean that folks who > don't believe in God are doomed or suffer more or are wrong. No. It > simply means that some of us believe in god and some don't. That's > fine with me. How about you? You insinuate that my belief makes me > stupid. For me, I believe that everyone is living to express who they > are and moving into their potentiality that will be included in their > expression. This is change. I can feel the harmony and completion of > the entirety. > > I disagree completely in your statement that we are all living the > same experience. I do not have your anger, sense of doom or apparent > suffering. For me, that spells a very different experience. The > world is. Our relationship to it is and this is what creates our > experience. Including, our relationship to ourselves, others, god, > the earth etc. It is not all the same. That is the many. There is > that part of life where we are all one. Some say this too is part of > the god within us or Christ consciousness. But this doesn't negate > our individuality, it empowers it. > > If you feel that someone is trying to change you, tell them it is not > possible. Only you can do that. If you allow external events to > effect you in such a way that you change, you are still the one doing > the changing. Don't worry about that! > > On Sep 27, 8:22 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > You make it sound like everyone who believes in God believes like > > this........mb > > I don't make it sound like anything, that is your perception, you > > should know others may hear it differently. I admit it to be rather > > simplified but true in the basic sense. I just don't see any deity > > dishing out life nor ascribe to silly stories describing humans as > > such. There is much energy in the universe, some are opposing and are > > causal to violence in nature, we are not much different. Within us > > are the storms, the lightning, thunder and raging sea along with > > harmony, peace and tranquility. While some people are living in peace > > and quiet others are fighting in arenas and wars.. Ultimately we have > > 'some' choice in what we want to experience, happiness or anger, but > > we are also subject to the effects of opposing energies ie; natural > > disasters. So life to me is nothing but energy in different forms, we > > can call it whatever but that is all it is to me and there is no value > > except from what we can glean from it, what we can harness and utilize > > to form our own nature, transform ourselves. We all know the > > difference between love and hate, peace and war, being angry or > > passive. Humans unfortunately are subject to programing by the > > external world and without having knowledge of our internal, we are > > doomed to suffer through life, through error. As others have noted, > > we no longer need stories and myths to explain why there is lightning > > and thunder, that the boom boom is not because gods are angry. > > > People die in plane and auto crashes because they enter into a field > > of energy that is essentially unstable, without constants. When you > > put yourself 10,000 feet above the earth in a machine there is no > > deity influence on whether or not you will arrive at your > > destination. When you get in your car and drive 80 mph with hundreds > > of others in opposite directions, you are entering a whole new realm > > of energy. To get out of the car after a crash with fatalities and > > say "God, why did you let this happen", or "God was watching over > > me", is all ludicrous. Planes, cars, trains and spaceships crash, > > ships sink, bombs explode, fire burns, glass breaks and people bleed. > > It's all about energy and how we use it. Death (natural) is nothing > > more than energy running out, reaching the end of a life span and so > > like plants we seed new life, new energy with it's own new life span. > > Humanity's ego creates these delusions of grandeur, of piety and > > godliness. All the other animals know when it's hot or cold outside > > so what makes us any different, our capacity of thought, manipulation > > of our environment, technology, to think we are divine? Does there > > have to be a purpose, a beginning to an end? Do we necessarily have > > to have a God? Obviously the people who have one and the people who > > don't are all living the same experience, other than the fantasy > > part. There is absolutely no distinct difference in people who > > believe from those who don't. If there were a difference people would > > be changing, like there is a difference with people who use soap, > > that's why people use it. > > > If you want to believe, that is fine with me, I'm not trying to > > influence change, we're still just friends. Unfortunately many who do > > believe want to change others. I can only surmise that it is because > > no one wants to feel stupid alone, and I might ad the economy of > > belief. > > > On Sep 27, 3:49 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > "As far as the value of God for me there is none but for those who > > > ascribe > > > to the concept the value is attributing all the good things to God and > > > attributing all the bad stuff to evil, which of course for some > > > strange unknown reason God allows. I just don't see any purpose in > > > all this pain and suffering" SD > > > > You make it sound like everyone who believes in God believes like > > > this, and I don't find that to be true at all. I think we humans > > > ascribe good and evil to any event. Events that we don't like, that > > > are deconstructive rather than creative, that we don't understand at > > > the time, that hurt us - perhaps this is what you term as evil. The > > > purpose of Buddhism is the relief of suffering, but it is believed > > > that this can be done while living, by changing the way one thinks, > > > feels and believes. We break our own hearts and we suffer for it > > > because of the way we see the world. God is, whether we suffer or > > > not. > > > > I am not sure that God has a purpose. I am not sure that I do > > > either. But I believe that life is a blessing whether I am feeling > > > good or bad. > > > > On Sep 26, 5:12 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I guess my perceptions were off, must be the Dutch translation. As > > > > far as the value of God for me there is none but for those who ascribe > > > > to the concept the value is attributing all the good things to God and > > > > attributing all the bad stuff to evil, which of course for some > > > > strange unknown reason God allows. I just don't see any purpose in > > > > all this pain and suffering, what possible purpose could there be or > > > > even if you could think one up would it make any sense? I think > > > > eventually the passive being will give way to the violent beings they > > > > spend enormous amounts of energy trying to transform and rehabilitate > > > > and allow to propagate thereby increasing the number of adversaries. > > > > The decadent want the righteous dead. Political correctness is the > > > > the catalyst for change, change for the worst, rights for criminals, > > > > rights for evil. The establishment continues to reap the benefits of > > > > a dysfunctional society, all areas are supported by it. From the > > > > Judges, the lawyers, the courts, the police, the jails, bail bonds, > > > > etc. it is a whole system that functions on the dysfunction of > > > > society. Why would they want it any other way. It's just like > > > > dysfunctional government, if they were functional we wouldn't need > > > > them. > > > > > On Sep 26, 2:28 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > No no SD your response is actually welcome.. I would also like to > > > > > especially hear what Pat has to say . . . I hear people always saying > > > > > 'God's Purpose' but no one seems to know just hat that purpose > > > > > is.... > > > > > Maybe his purpose id to line up all the good little islamist and > > > > > christians > > > > > in a frying pan rosat them over the fires of hell and have them for a > > > > > snack.. (hmm tasty? or is that God smacking good?) and then it is > > > > > alright > > > > > and the safest position is that of the atheist.. > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
