I was aware that Euro-libs were for limited government(unlike Amero-libs) so my comment was slightly tongue in cheek. Thanks for the break down of party sentiments over there; this is very interesting to me. Sounds like the Euro-liberal is much like our Libertarian Party here in the States. Although the Libertarian Party is much too isolationist for my liking.
A few short years ago it didn't really affect us over here one way or the other but in our current and probably prolonged weakened state Euro politics will likely have much more of an influence. I am, however, appalled at the increased influence of Russia and their totalitarian government. I see our hegemony(your continent and N. America's) crumbling before my very eyes and I don't like it. Even considering all our mistakes; does the world think China and Russia will do a better job? There is too much I don't know but what might happen is Russia forming a relationship with China much like we've enjoyed for the past 30 years. I can't believe Obama would let something like this happen but he comes across so weak and innocent I just don't know. Our politics are shaking up here as well. Both Democrats and Republicans have proven themselves massive government increasers. An influential third party is almost guaranteed. I hope it remains organized and funded and acts as a huge lobby to curb government power. After Republicans see this new party stealing members and money left and right perhaps they will start acting like conservatives again. Perhaps. dj On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 7:17 AM, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 4 Okt., 04:42, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Liberals across the pond are so much more >> sensible then they are here. > > The comment that England and the US are two nations divided by a > common language is usually attributed to George Bernard Shaw, Don, > something which can be clearly seen with respect to the use of the > word "liberal." In Europe generally, even most of the conservative > parties would have to regarded as dangerously liberal from a US > conservative point of view. > > While many of the European parties which claim the designation > "liberal" for themselves have strong historical roots in an older > 19th. and 20th. Century tradition in which the the term refers to to a > bourgeois (using the term as a synonym for "middle class" rather than > in a Marxist context where the word is used to distinguish from > political groups which have their roots among the workers/proletariat) > attitude which stressed the importance of the rights of the individual > against the power of privilege, statist control and/or national- > security/conservative viewpoints, such positions are accepted today by > all major political parties apart from those of the far left and > right, with only some differences of shading and emphasis. (The UK > liberals have an even more complex history, one strain of which goes > back to the "Whig" group which emerged in parliament at the end of the > 17th. Century and which was originally the "party" of the upper > aristocracy (the dukes and earls) as opposed to the Tories (ancestors > of today's Conservatives), which was the party of the smaller gentry.) > Most European liberals today can be better defined as those parties > who represent the view that state influence should be minimised in the > economic area and enthusiastically argue in favour of the interests of > business and for a reduction of state involvement in the social area > and in the area of regulation in general. > > Most of them retain a patina of their liberal origins in that they > would be in favour of such things as curtailment of the rights of the > state to observe and collect information about its citizens for > whatever reason, the strict seperation of church and state, and sexual > liberation. The leader of the German liberals (and putative future > foreign minister), Guido Westerwelle, for example, is openly > homosexual and is frequently accompanied by his partner at official > functions. That is just not an issue here, something I could not > imagine in the USA. > > But the German Free Democrats' (as the liberals officially call > themselves) main thrust is what could better be called neo-liberal - a > stalwart espousal of themes such as deregulation, the primacy of > untrammeled free markets and the rights of employers. They are often > referred to as party of the "better-off" (Besserverdienenden) > although, to be fair to them, they (publicly) don't like this > description. Their history in the past thirty years has been > punctuated by a number of scandals, usually involving groups of > wealthy business people who have been hell-bent on illegally providing > them with covert funding which, when such cases have been made public, > they have always officially explained as being the work of individual > party functionaries about which the general party leadership has never > known. (Anyone wanting to know more about such affairs can google the > names, Otto Graf Lambsdorff and Jürgen W. Möllemann.) > > The increase of their vote by a third to 14.6% in the German elections > last week, which will see them as taking place in government, was > largely at the cost of Merkel's Christian Democrats, the larger of the > two partners in the forthcoming coalition. Both the Christian > Democrats and the Social Democrats who made up the Grand Coalition > which governed for the past four years lost votes; the SPD losing > drastically to the Left Party (an alliance of a group which has its > roots in the former East German communists and a disgruntled group of > Social Democrats who left their party five years ago in protest at > what they regarded as Schröder's unsocial reform course). In fact, the > Christian Democrats and the liberals together increased their combined > share of the vote, compared to 2005, by just 3.4%, much of which can > be explained by a fall in voter turn-out from 77.7% to 70.8%. In other > words, more of those likely to vote "left" (SPD, the Left Party and > the Greens) simply stayed at home. But that's the way parliamentary > democracy works and, in this case, the swing was enough to cause a > (partial) change in government (Merkel's CDU will remain in power, > just this time with a different partner). > > Francis > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
