Logic, in as far as I admit to any, gets me only as far as that I cannot disprove god. History tells me humans have been inventing stuff that isn't true since before we have reliable record. God and prophet stories have remarkable similarity. Eye witness evidence is unreliable - most people are not good at it and most will go with whatever story someone else relates before them, and are very prejudiced. We are easily misled by sleight-of-hand. People lie to others and themselves. We all do this. Scientific theories are under-determined by evidence and change - often the evidence for later theories is available when other, less efficient and explanatory theories hold sway. Many theories cannot be disproved and scepticism about any knowledge cannot be disproved. Generally, for knowledge we proceed by minimised epistemic risk - not believing what we cannot prove and demonstrate. We seek to make our scientific knowledge reliable against all other knowledge. We can lay out where this leaves us. It's hard work and avoided by most. Many are not capable of it and need much more than what passes as education to achieve informed and reasonable decisions. I'd go as far as to say we are in need of a religion of this.
On 24 Oct, 02:52, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > I always start by wondering what I would think if ordinary Joe told me > the stories and also about the way I am easily conned by magic before > (and often after) I see the way the trick is done. I'm also inclined > to think copying and plagiarism is rife and was then. I notice much > talk of heroes is elaborated, so why am I expected to think > differently of religious stuff. Lies, illusions and fantasies can be > found daily - some modern Freudians even say they don't help clients > find the truth even if this is what they are looking for, but offer a > better organisation of their fections (I'll leave this in memory of > Father Ted!). > Personally, I doubt Jesus is a historical figure - more likely there > were many. I'd say the key issue is how we come to believe what is > mostly snake oil (the satanic abuse scandals in the UK make > fascinating reading on how phoney experts from abroad can influence > apparently sane cops and social workers) and how we are so influenced > today. I have no problem with wandering cynics seeking to change > society, and like many Greeks before me, have a sign saying they are > welcome above my door. The question as to whether Jesus owned his > clothes is a good one whether one needs to believe in him as the son > of God or not. > > On 23 Oct, 23:02, Manfraco Frank the Elder <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi allan and others! > > Allan, your post could be very interesting for me and I am going to > > follow it very closely, I know I am not very learned like some of you; > > but I have got my own ideas or religious beliefs which need to be > > tuned in before I can express them more openly. I am sure that if one > > takes away parts of the stories which only embellish the gospels it > > may have very different meanings; but you have to be very careful > > about that if you believe in anything at all; you see you have to defy > > your own religious beliefs and be strong enough to change the gospel. > > Please, read the very end of the Bible, where there is a sort of curse > > if anyone changes anything. Are you willing to chance that? > > Send you all my regards > > Manfraco > > > On Oct 24, 4:57 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I have often wondered what the new testament of the bible would be like > > > if > > > you removed the parts that are in reality are made up short stories used > > > to > > > sell a bill of goods. An example(s) being the nativity stories, the > > > resurrection (misunderstood,) the writings of Saul Of Tarsus the book > > > of > > > revelations. to name a few > > > > I wonder if a book (it would probably be very short) getting rid of the > > > exact interpretation but rather trying to expressed express the ideas that > > > Jesus the man best wanted to express. I look at our group and the > > > atheists > > > and agnostics have a very valuable role in working out that validity of > > > what > > > is being said. There is a definite need to counter balance my own beliefs > > > and those of other fanatics. > > > > To tell the truth this would be a total dream for me. There is an event > > > astronomically that can be dated like a total solar eclipse over Jerusalem > > > in 33 CE. I do know that there are religious fanatics in the Philippines > > > that are crucified (literally) and they regularly survive it. I think > > > these > > > things need to be taken into account, from what I understand it actually > > > takes several days to die that way. > > > > Here I have to admit I am jealous of the sheer enlightenment of spiritual > > > knowledge Francis and other members of this group possess. I am hoping > > > they > > > will take to this idea. > > > Allan > > > > ( > > > ) > > > I_D Allan --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
