Well that is one thing I have difficulty with as I see a lot of bad dogma coming from Saul of Tarsus in his case I think it is someone reading into an event far beyond what happened. After which he pursued his own agenda. From what I have read and seen he was never an apostle.
In looking over Jesus seminar material there is some thing I agree with like : Jesus was an itinerant sage who shared meals with social outcasts. and Jesus was arrested in Jerusalem and crucified by the Romans. He was executed as a public nuisance, not for claiming to be the Son of God. I know that around 33 C.E. there was a solar eclipse that occurred over Jerusalem. and that is provable. and if Jesus was crucified during this event you probably had people scared beyond belief and they probably would have been able to get Jesus off the cross before he died. face the reality it would have taken time to heal. Because of the astrological event you have a prime event that could lead to stories of the wildest imagination. I am sure the event would have been talked about for many years afterwards,, and what an event to build your religious fable afterwards. I just don't buy Saul of Tarsus. I think he is one of those who lead people awy from the ideal of Jesus. Allan On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > I don't know about a curse, but the christian mystics see the Paul > teachings as instructional in that we are all capable of becoming > apostles of Christ, and all capable of Christ consciousness, and all > capable of the resurrection, "where I and the father are one" or God > consciousness. > > Here is a link to some of the Neville Goddard lectures on the Paul > material that I find interesting in this regard: > http://www.picosearch.com/cgi-bin/ts.pl > > On Oct 24, 2:21 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > I can see I have massive amount of reading ahead ,, It always amazes me > how > > much I don't know. > > Never thought of trying to disprove God.. some times the flip side of the > > question is interesting.. > > > > there are amazing similarities in the bleives even in diverse cultures. > > Allan > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 4:53 AM, archytas <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Logic, in as far as I admit to any, gets me only as far as that I > > > cannot disprove god. History tells me humans have been inventing > > > stuff that isn't true since before we have reliable record. God and > > > prophet stories have remarkable similarity. Eye witness evidence is > > > unreliable - most people are not good at it and most will go with > > > whatever story someone else relates before them, and are very > > > prejudiced. We are easily misled by sleight-of-hand. People lie to > > > others and themselves. We all do this. > > > Scientific theories are under-determined by evidence and change - > > > often the evidence for later theories is available when other, less > > > efficient and explanatory theories hold sway. Many theories cannot be > > > disproved and scepticism about any knowledge cannot be disproved. > > > Generally, for knowledge we proceed by minimised epistemic risk - not > > > believing what we cannot prove and demonstrate. We seek to make our > > > scientific knowledge reliable against all other knowledge. We can lay > > > out where this leaves us. It's hard work and avoided by most. Many > > > are not capable of it and need much more than what passes as education > > > to achieve informed and reasonable decisions. I'd go as far as to say > > > we are in need of a religion of this. > > > > > On 24 Oct, 02:52, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I always start by wondering what I would think if ordinary Joe told > me > > > > the stories and also about the way I am easily conned by magic before > > > > (and often after) I see the way the trick is done. I'm also inclined > > > > to think copying and plagiarism is rife and was then. I notice much > > > > talk of heroes is elaborated, so why am I expected to think > > > > differently of religious stuff. Lies, illusions and fantasies can be > > > > found daily - some modern Freudians even say they don't help clients > > > > find the truth even if this is what they are looking for, but offer a > > > > better organisation of their fections (I'll leave this in memory of > > > > Father Ted!). > > > > Personally, I doubt Jesus is a historical figure - more likely there > > > > were many. I'd say the key issue is how we come to believe what is > > > > mostly snake oil (the satanic abuse scandals in the UK make > > > > fascinating reading on how phoney experts from abroad can influence > > > > apparently sane cops and social workers) and how we are so influenced > > > > today. I have no problem with wandering cynics seeking to change > > > > society, and like many Greeks before me, have a sign saying they are > > > > welcome above my door. The question as to whether Jesus owned his > > > > clothes is a good one whether one needs to believe in him as the son > > > > of God or not. > > > > > > On 23 Oct, 23:02, Manfraco Frank the Elder <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi allan and others! > > > > > Allan, your post could be very interesting for me and I am going to > > > > > follow it very closely, I know I am not very learned like some of > you; > > > > > but I have got my own ideas or religious beliefs which need to be > > > > > tuned in before I can express them more openly. I am sure that if > one > > > > > takes away parts of the stories which only embellish the gospels it > > > > > may have very different meanings; but you have to be very careful > > > > > about that if you believe in anything at all; you see you have to > defy > > > > > your own religious beliefs and be strong enough to change the > gospel. > > > > > Please, read the very end of the Bible, where there is a sort of > curse > > > > > if anyone changes anything. Are you willing to chance that? > > > > > Send you all my regards > > > > > Manfraco > > > > > > > On Oct 24, 4:57 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have often wondered what the new testament of the bible would > be > > > like if > > > > > > you removed the parts that are in reality are made up short > stories > > > used to > > > > > > sell a bill of goods. An example(s) being the nativity stories, > the > > > > > > resurrection (misunderstood,) the writings of Saul Of Tarsus > the > > > book of > > > > > > revelations. to name a few > > > > > > > > I wonder if a book (it would probably be very short) getting rid > of > > > the > > > > > > exact interpretation but rather trying to expressed express the > ideas > > > that > > > > > > Jesus the man best wanted to express. I look at our group and > the > > > atheists > > > > > > and agnostics have a very valuable role in working out that > validity > > > of what > > > > > > is being said. There is a definite need to counter balance my > own > > > beliefs > > > > > > and those of other fanatics. > > > > > > > > To tell the truth this would be a total dream for me. There is an > > > event > > > > > > astronomically that can be dated like a total solar eclipse over > > > Jerusalem > > > > > > in 33 CE. I do know that there are religious fanatics in the > > > Philippines > > > > > > that are crucified (literally) and they regularly survive it. I > think > > > these > > > > > > things need to be taken into account, from what I understand it > > > actually > > > > > > takes several days to die that way. > > > > > > > > Here I have to admit I am jealous of the sheer enlightenment of > > > spiritual > > > > > > knowledge Francis and other members of this group possess. I am > > > hoping they > > > > > > will take to this idea. > > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > ) > > > > > > I_D Allan > > > > -- > > ( > > ) > > I_D Allan > > > -- ( ) I_D Allan --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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