I would agree if I had meant that Orn. No, I don't mean that dreadful Cardinal Dawkins and his disciples. You perhaps, but my meaning lies in the idea of something religious with the fact-base and genuine argumentation taken into account. I have a friend who is deeply Roman Catholic. Not noticed it affecting his chemistry or regard of the Clergy in respect of condoms, family-planning and so on. He's as RC as I am card-carrying Rugby Leaguer, and a stem-cell researcher. His route (like almost all?) is not via belief in drivel scripture or lunatic infallibility. I think science is affected-afflicted still by having to deny the power of the church. This may have been a practical necessity, but is now a spiritual failing.
On 24 Oct, 07:26, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > “…we are in need of a religion of this…[logic & scientific > knowledge?]” – Archy > > Seems to me this already exists; however, there are many atheists > about it too. > > On Oct 23, 7:53 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Logic, in as far as I admit to any, gets me only as far as that I > > cannot disprove god. History tells me humans have been inventing > > stuff that isn't true since before we have reliable record. God and > > prophet stories have remarkable similarity. Eye witness evidence is > > unreliable - most people are not good at it and most will go with > > whatever story someone else relates before them, and are very > > prejudiced. We are easily misled by sleight-of-hand. People lie to > > others and themselves. We all do this. > > Scientific theories are under-determined by evidence and change - > > often the evidence for later theories is available when other, less > > efficient and explanatory theories hold sway. Many theories cannot be > > disproved and scepticism about any knowledge cannot be disproved. > > Generally, for knowledge we proceed by minimised epistemic risk - not > > believing what we cannot prove and demonstrate. We seek to make our > > scientific knowledge reliable against all other knowledge. We can lay > > out where this leaves us. It's hard work and avoided by most. Many > > are not capable of it and need much more than what passes as education > > to achieve informed and reasonable decisions. I'd go as far as to say > > we are in need of a religion of this. > > > On 24 Oct, 02:52, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I always start by wondering what I would think if ordinary Joe told me > > > the stories and also about the way I am easily conned by magic before > > > (and often after) I see the way the trick is done. I'm also inclined > > > to think copying and plagiarism is rife and was then. I notice much > > > talk of heroes is elaborated, so why am I expected to think > > > differently of religious stuff. Lies, illusions and fantasies can be > > > found daily - some modern Freudians even say they don't help clients > > > find the truth even if this is what they are looking for, but offer a > > > better organisation of their fections (I'll leave this in memory of > > > Father Ted!). > > > Personally, I doubt Jesus is a historical figure - more likely there > > > were many. I'd say the key issue is how we come to believe what is > > > mostly snake oil (the satanic abuse scandals in the UK make > > > fascinating reading on how phoney experts from abroad can influence > > > apparently sane cops and social workers) and how we are so influenced > > > today. I have no problem with wandering cynics seeking to change > > > society, and like many Greeks before me, have a sign saying they are > > > welcome above my door. The question as to whether Jesus owned his > > > clothes is a good one whether one needs to believe in him as the son > > > of God or not. > > > > On 23 Oct, 23:02, Manfraco Frank the Elder <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi allan and others! > > > > Allan, your post could be very interesting for me and I am going to > > > > follow it very closely, I know I am not very learned like some of you; > > > > but I have got my own ideas or religious beliefs which need to be > > > > tuned in before I can express them more openly. I am sure that if one > > > > takes away parts of the stories which only embellish the gospels it > > > > may have very different meanings; but you have to be very careful > > > > about that if you believe in anything at all; you see you have to defy > > > > your own religious beliefs and be strong enough to change the gospel. > > > > Please, read the very end of the Bible, where there is a sort of curse > > > > if anyone changes anything. Are you willing to chance that? > > > > Send you all my regards > > > > Manfraco > > > > > On Oct 24, 4:57 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I have often wondered what the new testament of the bible would be > > > > > like if > > > > > you removed the parts that are in reality are made up short stories > > > > > used to > > > > > sell a bill of goods. An example(s) being the nativity stories, the > > > > > resurrection (misunderstood,) the writings of Saul Of Tarsus the > > > > > book of > > > > > revelations. to name a few > > > > > > I wonder if a book (it would probably be very short) getting rid of > > > > > the > > > > > exact interpretation but rather trying to expressed express the ideas > > > > > that > > > > > Jesus the man best wanted to express. I look at our group and the > > > > > atheists > > > > > and agnostics have a very valuable role in working out that validity > > > > > of what > > > > > is being said. There is a definite need to counter balance my own > > > > > beliefs > > > > > and those of other fanatics. > > > > > > To tell the truth this would be a total dream for me. There is an > > > > > event > > > > > astronomically that can be dated like a total solar eclipse over > > > > > Jerusalem > > > > > in 33 CE. I do know that there are religious fanatics in the > > > > > Philippines > > > > > that are crucified (literally) and they regularly survive it. I think > > > > > these > > > > > things need to be taken into account, from what I understand it > > > > > actually > > > > > takes several days to die that way. > > > > > > Here I have to admit I am jealous of the sheer enlightenment of > > > > > spiritual > > > > > knowledge Francis and other members of this group possess. I am > > > > > hoping they > > > > > will take to this idea. > > > > > Allan > > > > > > ( > > > > > ) > > > > > I_D Allan- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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