Once again, watch what Wafa Sultan has to say. Do you think SHE'S an uneducated Western Islamophobe?
http://www.spike.com/video/wafa-sultan-clashes/2703896 On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 3 Dec, 16:10, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > More of Orn's favorite...bifurcation! > > > > The reality is, .01% may be truly active terrorists (and I sincerely > doubt > > the number is that low...), but 60% live in countries where Islamic > > Theocratic Rule mandates beatings and executions for renouncing your > faith, > > or converting to another faith, and horrifying "punishments" for women to > > have the audacity to go out alone, drive, be educated, choose whom to > share > > their body or lives with, or Allah Forbid, be raped. Overwhelmingly, the > men > > of those countries support said policies, and Sharia law. > > > > Yet these are all examples of poor interpretation OF Quranic and > Sunnic traditions. Many leaders of 'Islamic countries' bow to age-old > cultural practices that are, in fact, completely prohibited BY the > Qur'an and/or the Prophet's statements (ahadith). You're buying into > the Islamophobia without trying to discover the truth about such > practices and their TRUE origins. They are NOT Islamic. > > > Interesting to me that you think of the liberties in the west, which > include > > equality between genders, free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of > the > > press, etc, as: > > "Western society demand(ing) its right to be > > intoxicated and irascible to the point of outright destructive > > behaviour afterwards and the duty to oppress one another through usury > > and other ways (in the name of 'Survival of the Fittest', a euphemism > > for maintaining that animal instincts are the way forward!!) and > > Muslims don't understand why Western, supposedly civilised people, > > demand the right to act like idiots, screw up the environment and take > > as much as is possible from those who have the least. Muslims don't > > view that as civilised behaviour." > > > > Hmmm...so, it's not the CORE differences in our liberty based society > that > > offends them, it's the excesses of the minority. Interesting. I > personally > > don't view burying 12 year old girls to their necks and stoning them to > > death for the crime of being raped as civilized, but hey, perhaps we just > > have a different perspective. > > Again, a cultural practice that is prohibited by the Qur'an and the > Prophet's Sunnah (lifestyle). > > >I'm not sure why it is you think Muslims will > > be left with the moral high ground...perhaps you find Sharia law to be an > > attractive rule set and world view to live under? Surprising to me that > > someone in such a modern environment would have such a barbaric > > perspective. > > > > Amazing that you would think me barbaric for having a greater > understanding OF Islam and Shar'ia than you do. Ignorance and the > struggle (jihad) to remain ignorant is FAR more barbaric, in my eyes. > And, certainly, not particularly scientific or fair. > > > It's one thing to note that the tenets of a religion do not match the > > actions of the followers; hell, that's the problem with religions the > world > > over. > > Exactly! So why paint the whole of the Islamic world by the action of > the minority? > > >It is, however, very much a case of sticking your head in the sand to > > deny that the general actions of a vast majority of a religion's > followers > > (who live in Sharia based societies), reflect on that religion as a > whole. > > A population is forced to either accept the laws of the land, fight a > revolution or move. Whydo you think so many Muslims are leaving their > homelands to live elsewhere? They KNOW that Shar'ia isn't being > implemented correctly, so they move to places where they can, > hopefully, practice their faith in peace without fear of 'poor > Shar'ia' to further afflict them. And what they find, is that, the > people in their new lands think them barbarian for having grown up > under a dictatorship. > > > Would you be so passionately apologetic of Christianity? I'm guessing > not, > > but feel free to correct me. > > > > Well, I certainly think that the Crusades and the Inquisition reflect > on Christianity. But not on today's population. They were the > results of a similar form of fundamentalism within Christianity that > occurred about 1400 years or so after Jesus. The Wahhabi sect of > Islam has done much the same for the name of Islam. But do we tar and > feather all Muslims because of one errant sect? Or, do we work > together with both Sunni and Shi'a and strive WITH them to help them > eradicate the 'innovations' that the Wahhabis have instigated and > further engender common goals? Oh yeah, but the Saudis are Wahhabi > and they have the oil we need, so, we'd better stay on-side with the > good-oil guys, even thought we know they support the poorest of all > interpretation of the Qur'an. > > > Compare human rights in any Muslim controlled country to any of the > Western > > secular controlled countries. Compare the general standard of living of > the > > masses. Compare the number of atrocities perpetuated in the name of > religion > > between the two. Moral high ground? Ludicrous. > > > > Yeah, Abu Ghraib was a perfect example of how we have the moral high > ground, eh? What was done there was not good, nor moral; rather, it > was done out of ignorance and hatred and were, essentially, godless > acts of degradation and humiliation. But, of course, we wouldn't want > to talk about those issues, as they don't foster Islamophobia. > > > The twelve apostles of Christ had some interesting ideas. The religion > since > > then has been a blood thirsty, backwards, barbaric organization > responsible > > for the deaths of millions. Only in the last century has Christianity > made > > ANY forward movement in social evolution. Islam is still 300 years behind > > that. > > > > I can't think of any movements forward within Christianity. The > current Pope was the former head of the Inquisition. OK, they've > changed the name of that branch now to "The Congregation for the > Doctrine of the Faith", but it still exists and is the same > 'department'. Most of your arguments are against Wahhabi > interpretation of Shar'ia, and I agree with you. That needs to be > addressed. But not by tarring and feathering the masses with that > which they don't believe or accept themselves. > > > P.S. Here's some good reading about the history of Islamic Militancy. It > > goes back FAR further than you apparently seem to think. > > > > http://islam-watch.org/MA_Khan/IncessantTerrorism.htm > > > > LOL!! the site's 'About us' link states, "We are a group of Muslim > apostates...". So, do you think that they are going to be offering > you a completely balanced view? It's like trying to hone up on > Judaism by viewing a website that is run by Jews-For-Jesus. It's > simply NOT a site that I would remotely consider as wanting or trying > to be fair. Rather, they want you to have the worst possible view of > Islam that they can engender. And you bought right into it. > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:58 AM, Pat <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > On 3 Dec, 01:53, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Interesting development. Perhaps, despite tremendous efforts from > the > > > > PC crowd, some folks are beginning to see the connection between > > > > Islamic militant terrorism and your friendly neighborhood mosque. In > > > > the chatter in the control room(water cooler) I heard something about > > > > some politician offering to allow it when Saudi Arabia allows > > > > Christian churches to be built there. No going, apparently. > > > > > > Another problem is the Islamic schools popping up all over western > > > > culture. All funded by rich Arabs for the most part. A study done > on > > > > the text books supplied these kids was a little alarming. Little > > > > Osamas are being indoctrinated on our home soil. Unless laws are > > > > changed this problem will increase. I'm still flabbergasted we > didn't > > > > start profiling at the airports after 9/11. I'm shocked folks are > > > > still whining about the Patriot Act. > > > > > It could just be a numbers game. Given a Muslim population of 1.6 > > > Billion (1,600,000,000), if 0.01% of them are militant terrorists > > > (i.e., 99.99% good people), then there are 16,000 problems out there. > > > And 16 thousand people can, if organised, cause a great deal of > > > trouble. However, that shouldn't paint the other 99.99% of good > > > people with the paintbrush called 'Terrorist Potential'. We are ALL > > > potential terrorists, given the right impetus, so the profiling should > > > be for ALL. > > > > > > If we could get these other countries to open their borders and allow > > > > freedom of religion I'd feel a lot better about allowing them to > build > > > > more here. I am not, by the way, in favor of interment camps or > > > > shutting down the mosques already here that have proven themselves > > > > peaceful and are a compliment to the community. I have to say that > or > > > > some of you would be jumping down my throat accusing me of genocide. > > > > > > -Don > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:28 PM, fran the man <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > On 2 Dez., 17:58, Ian Pollard <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> Fantastic news and, despite what you say, very progressive! :) > > > > > > > Er, Ian, I don't believe I personally put forward any opinion as to > > > > > the progressive, or otherwise nature of the decision of the Swiss > > > > > people in my original post. I simply formulated some of the > questions > > > > > which are being publicly discussed in Europe following the > referendum. > > > > > > > Formally, the Swiss simply decided to forbid the building of > minarets > > > > > in their country. No more, no less. Symbolically, of course, > writing > > > > > this prohibition into Swiss law means much more - indeed, many > > > > > different things to different people. Personally, I would incline > to > > > > > the view that what can and cannot be built is more a matter for > local > > > > > authorities and their procedures for granting planning permission. > A > > > > > well-designed mosque with minaret may well improve certain urban > > > > > landscapes from an architectural/aesthetic perspective, just as > many > > > > > badly designed and situated Christian churches are simply ugly and > > > > > just don't fit in where they are. > > > > > > > The much deeper question of Islam and the relationship between it, > as > > > > > a religious-cultural-political Weltanschauung and western societies > > > > > and the values they (we) see as being basic to their (our) self- > > > > > understanding is complex and multi-facetted. My hope is that this > > > > > thread may take up some of these issues. > > > > > > > Francis > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > . > > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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