So has the USA. Humanity is nomadic by intrusion, conquest or subversion. On Dec 3, 4:59 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > Francis did not cover the topic, that's right Chris. He is living and > dealing with this topic. But keep on zapping between the versions that > please you most, my cowboy friend. > > On 3 Dez., 18:32, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Wafa Sultan covers this topic EXTREMELY well in her debate with a > > Conservative Muslim Cleric. > > >http://www.spike.com/video/wafa-sultan-clashes/2703896 > > > <http://www.spike.com/video/wafa-sultan-clashes/2703896>She destroys the > > concept of "Islam as a religion which can peacefully cooperate with others", > > using specifics. She was raised as a devout Muslim in an Islamic society, so > > speaks from the horse's mouth. > > > It's only those in the west, who apply WESTERN concepts of cooperativism to > > religio > > religions, who think otherwise. > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >anci3 Dez., 00:06, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >tt gh, [email protected] Irish-catholic background you havour rphed > > > > into such a Gutmensch that it is almost unbearable. > > > > Sticks and slmost unb break my bones ... > > > > More seriously, though, Gabby, I started this post because I really am > > > NOT clear about how I stand on this issue. The town in which I live > > > has a sizable Muslim (mostly Turkish) minority, indeed, last year, for > > > the first time over 50% of the children born here in Remscheid had > > > what is officially called "a migrant background"icially ct they were > > > all Muslims, since "ethnic" Germans with a Russian backround, for > > > example, are also included in this category). I h also inc contact > > > with Muslim women swathed in cloth and young Turkish males, whose > > > testosterone-fuelled, insecure, aggressive, sensitive, ill-educated, > > > chauvenistic arrogance can be very hard to take. My daughter > > > frequenhard to takeeal with their denigrating machismo misogeny and > > > consequently has more to put up with than me. I have beere to punted > > > with comments that our society is decadent and immoral and, given > > > their higher birth-rates, they are going to be in the majority here > > > some day and then we'd better all watch out. I personally know of a > > > Turkish family, where both parents are carriers of a rare genetic > > > condition (probably as a result of a very small gene-pool in an remote > > > area in eastern Anatolia) whose second child was born horrifically > > > deformed five years ago and still lives (if you can call it living; > > > blind, deaf, without any contact with the outside world, severely > > > mentally handicapped [as far as CAT brain-scans can tell], who despite > > > heavy medication and sedation still suffers from frequent daily > > > epileptic seizures in a long-term intensive-care institution. She is > > > able to cry when she is in discomfort - and she cries a lot). Her > > > parents visit her for about an hour around once a month. But then, > > > she's only a girl. Since her birth, knowing the genetic situation, the > > > mother has been pregnant twice - one miscarriage, one healthy child - > > > and is now pregnant again. She refuses ante-natal tests because Allah > > > is merciful. I could relate many more anecdotes. > > > > Like Chris, I am sceptical about whether many followers of Islam > > > really respect the culture into which they have migrated and whether > > > they are really interested in integration. Given the example of many > > > majority Muslim cultures throughout the world, I wonder whether Islam > > > as it is generally interpreted today is capable of living those > > > teachings of the Qur'an which advocate tolerance and respect. This is > > > a general problem with religions which baneral mselves on "Holy > > > Scriptures"; you can find a Bible chapter and verse or a Qur'an sura > > > and ayat to support any position. As I see it, Islam froze itself into > > > anti-inteIslam aroze, anti-ratto > >lism around seven hundred years ago > > > with the general acceptance of the primacy of al-Ghazali's viewpoint > > > over that taken by Averroes. Christianity (in many respects not much > > > bettyr(in many ortured, conflct-ridden history, at least never > > > completely rejected reason, leading, ultimately to the Enlightn, lead > > > and Scientific Revolution. > > > > And yet ... > > aret prohibition strikes me as ... well ... petty. It > > > > > > also seems to me to be an expression of a tendency to abandon the > > > open, rational, humane positions which form (thankfully) part of the > > > fundament of western society. It's replying to intolerance and narrow- > > > mindedness with more intolerance and more narrow-mindedndedness wits > > > sense, it seems to somehow express an insecurity about our own values, > > > an uncertainty about their strengths. > > > > That said, I don't know any easy answers to the clash between many > > > recensions of Islam and western culture. Do we really want tests for > > > "good citizenship"? Do we need them? How is an open society to zenship"? > > > with its enemies? > > > > Francis > > > > -- > > cause you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > > > > ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]<minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
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