“…I really am NOT clear about how I stand on this issue….” – fran
Neither am I fran, neither am I. This is one reason I just copy/pasted today’s news about the UN. I have mixed emotions about the situation. In fact, so mixed I won’t even try to express any of them now! On Dec 3, 9:15 am, fran the man <[email protected]> wrote: > On 3 Dez., 00:06, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:> Argh, Francis, with > your Irish-catholic background you have morphed > > into such a Gutmensch that it is almost unbearable. > > Sticks and stones may break my bones ... > > More seriously, though, Gabby, I started this post because I really am > NOT clear about how I stand on this issue. The town in which I live > has a sizable Muslim (mostly Turkish) minority, indeed, last year, for > the first time over 50% of the children born here in Remscheid had > what is officially called "a migrant background" (not that they were > all Muslims, since "ethnic" Germans with a Russian backround, for > example, are also included in this category). I have daily contact > with Muslim women swathed in cloth and young Turkish males, whose > testosterone-fuelled, insecure, aggressive, sensitive, ill-educated, > chauvenistic arrogance can be very hard to take. My daughter > frequently has to deal with their denigrating machismo misogeny and > consequently has more to put up with than me. I have been confronted > with comments that our society is decadent and immoral and, given > their higher birth-rates, they are going to be in the majority here > some day and then we'd better all watch out. I personally know of a > Turkish family, where both parents are carriers of a rare genetic > condition (probably as a result of a very small gene-pool in an remote > area in eastern Anatolia) whose second child was born horrifically > deformed five years ago and still lives (if you can call it living; > blind, deaf, without any contact with the outside world, severely > mentally handicapped [as far as CAT brain-scans can tell], who despite > heavy medication and sedation still suffers from frequent daily > epileptic seizures in a long-term intensive-care institution. She is > able to cry when she is in discomfort - and she cries a lot). Her > parents visit her for about an hour around once a month. But then, > she's only a girl. Since her birth, knowing the genetic situation, the > mother has been pregnant twice - one miscarriage, one healthy child - > and is now pregnant again. She refuses ante-natal tests because Allah > is merciful. I could relate many more anecdotes. > > Like Chris, I am sceptical about whether many followers of Islam > really respect the culture into which they have migrated and whether > they are really interested in integration. Given the example of many > majority Muslim cultures throughout the world, I wonder whether Islam > as it is generally interpreted today is capable of living those > teachings of the Qur'an which advocate tolerance and respect. This is > a general problem with religions which base themselves on "Holy > Scriptures"; you can find a Bible chapter and verse or a Qur'an sura > and ayat to support any position. As I see it, Islam froze itself into > anti-intellectualism, anti-rationalism around seven hundred years ago > with the general acceptance of the primacy of al-Ghazali's viewpoint > over that taken by Averroes. Christianity (in many respects not much > better), in a tortured, conflct-ridden history, at least never > completely rejected reason, leading, ultimately to the Enlightenment > and Scientific Revolution. > > And yet ... > > The Swiss minaret prohibition strikes me as ... well ... petty. It > also seems to me to be an expression of a tendency to abandon the > open, rational, humane positions which form (thankfully) part of the > fundament of western society. It's replying to intolerance and narrow- > mindedness with more intolerance and more narrow-mindedness. In this > sense, it seems to somehow express an insecurity about our own values, > an uncertainty about their strengths. > > That said, I don't know any easy answers to the clash between many > recensions of Islam and western culture. Do we really want tests for > "good citizenship"? Do we need them? How is an open society to deal > with its enemies? > > Francis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
