" If freedom is my nature and my realization of it is intrinsic then all else must reach the same level of understanding before they can experience the same freedom, I can't give it to them as much as I yearn for all people to have freedom. It is an individual experience derived from our own mental capacity to understand and initiate it."
There are two conscious entities here : YOU ( or I ) and HIM ( the other person ). It is I who must know my true nature and, by that knowledge, conclude the true nature of the other as well, whether he knows or not. Behaviourally, I am guided by what I know, not by what the other person does not ( know ). However, in doing so, I run into emotional barriers and ego conflicts which, in summary, entraps me in a time warp anchored in what the other person knows and believes in his state of ' ignorance.' When thus faced with the barrier and conflict, I have a choice to make in my understanding : Is the other person's nature different from, other than, what I have concluded in respect of myself ? It is only when we persist at remaining consistent that we choose to conclude in favour of identity, and spot actual or/and assumed situational weaknesses or knowledge gap as being the causes that leave the other person with his imagined identity deeply seated at the head of his beliefs. The rest is easy, having a simple dependence on the answer to the question : Am I in a position to say or do something that would start the process of bridging the spotted knowledge gap ? Or, to say, do or give something that would insulate the person from one or more his actual or/and assumed situational weaknesses, for howsoever small duration, in which period he may have the breather to become aware, even if just a glimpse, of what it is to be free ( of the those situational weaknesses ). Mostly, there is little scope with people who are power - drunk, who have the ' means ' and no reason to change or examine themselves. With others, the weak or the underpriviledged, those you have assessed are good at heart, it's just a matter of doing ( giving, in his view ) something unexpected : lunch or drinks in a high profile outlet he cannot even think of ... help when he asks but least expects ... an understanding or empathy or counsel or company that show a respect or solidarity he has not had in ages ... the aim for us in all of it being the desire for the other person to wake up to his own dignity, strength, freedom, and the sense of being as priviledged and precious as any other bloke about. There ought to be nothing in it for ourself, not even an expectation of a desired result, which could go anywhich way in immediate terms. " Much of this stems from my belief in soul levels and previous life experiences wherein those that are relatively new beings just don't have the where with all to understand such concepts of freedom. Instead they are groping about the mundane realm trying to find what exists elsewhere. Therefore I've always stated that I don't engage the external nor take part in much of it ..." I am suspicious of anything that presents linearity, or seems ( delightfully ) linear. I know we cannot do without linear perceptions in our life or professions, especially as a scientist / analyst and accountant / businessman. But, in the mind - boggling subtle and causal worlds, the effects follow laws I have not fathomed. Of these domains, what I seem to know are at best superstitions that often come true ! On Dec 9, 5:18 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes, much said with which we are in accord and it does bring me back > to a brush I had with Lee not long ago about having to be overly > concerned with the welfare of others in distress when I stood fast > with the idea that there was nothing I could do about it other than to > recognize it and move on. If freedom is my nature and my realization > of it is intrinsic then all else must reach the same level of > understanding before they can experience the same freedom, I can't > give it to them as much as I yearn for all people to have freedom. It > is an individual experience derived from our own mental capacity to > understand and initiate it. Much of this stems from my belief in > soul levels and previous life experiences wherein those that are > relatively new beings just don't have the where with all to understand > such concepts of freedom. Instead they are groping about the mundane > realm trying to find what exists elsewhere. Therefore I've always > stated that I don't engage the external nor take part in much of it, > the societies, politics and all the rest are not part of my world and > it won't change no matter how much people think it will and when it > appears that it has changed shortly after it regresses back. I think > society is in a regression stage right now and possibly for the last 3 > decades, we've lost much of what had been gained. Perhaps in another > 10,000 years we may have it right but I won't know unless I'm living > in those times and have awareness of my current life, chances are slim > that we can find that exact identity with out past life histories. > Based on my own personal experiences I'm sure that there is more to > this life than just the experience of being here now. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4fWN6VvgKQ > > On Dec 8, 1:21 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > " When the understanding is clear and constant ... " > > > Which is the whole method. And, we can do it only in our mind, > > individually, before having any worthwhile expectations in terms of > > cooperative and ethical behaviour in our societies, politics, > > economics, law, administration ... the best of which would be sympton > > focussed and post - facto. > > > It takes a transforming experience, to so awaken into this > > understanding forever, clear and constant, to this memory ' organ ' > > that automatically precludes all these seeming values which conflicts > > with or comes contrary to it ... the age - old god and devil > > metaphor. > > > In its absence, the failures and destruction will just ' happen ' > > and we will continue with our post - mortem activities, our whines and > > laments, our fear found yap yapping, mounds of labyrinthine research > > and rationalisations, and this sea of money chasing print and audio - > > visuals we are forever submerged in ! > > > Agreed, it all leads somewhere, but hardly. > > > On Dec 7, 10:51 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Yeah, that does seem to be an extra, needless or even impossible > > > burden ... to be concentrated on other people's freedom and liberty. > > > > That one is concentrated on one's own is readily understood, as being > > > most desirable and important. What we still need to understand that we > > > do do truly understand our own freedom without concommitantly having > > > this understanding and love for the freedom of others. In absence of > > > the latter clarity, one could be pursuing anything except freedom in > > > truth, perhaps a disease as I see it. > > > > Our limits to doing is no barrier to our understanding, in truth. I > > > might not be able, left with anything or be able to spare enough of > > > myself, to do anything meaningful or significant in the cause of > > > freedom of others ; that, however, does not lessen in the least my > > > clear understanding that other individuals are the same as me, have > > > the same need and nature, that my freedom and those of all I regard as > > > ' mine ' is contingent upon all others awakening into this same > > > freedom, in their respective nature. It needs nothing ... not science, > > > education, smart thinking, money, status, celebrityhood ... for one to > > > step up and say as much, to restore this freedom in the mind ( and > > > heart ) of each person we communicate to, live with, relate to, or > > > interact with. > > > > This becomes clear when the freedom I speak of is understood to rest > > > in our realisation. It demands the freedom to work at being free from > > > fear, from basic needs, being free to choose and pursue happiness. > > > > When the understanding is clear and constant, we not only come to act > > > in its light but seldom fail to do so. > > > > On Dec 7, 6:36 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > You mean power 'over' the external, when the external has no bearing > > > > on the intrinsic freedom. I don't think that the external is a > > > > reflection of the internal unless you are considering that as being a > > > > reflection of the internal "whole", in the collective sense. I would > > > > agree with Vam that freedom is my nature but I drop off in the > > > > worrying about others freedom which essentially lies within their own > > > > ability to understand freedom as being intrinsic. > > > > > On Dec 6, 7:58 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I agree, Vam, that freedom is intrinsic, and conformity to perceived > > > > > external powers may be a distraction from the fact that everything > > > > > external is a reflection of the internal. The word "conformity" > > > > > implies not only separation between the two, but an emphasis of > > > > > "power" on the external. Freedom cannot be discovered there. > > > > > > On Dec 5, 10:30 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > " Freedom and liberty are all but an illusion based upon conformity > > > > > > to > > > > > > the powers that be." > > > > > > > I find freedom is my nature. It is only tempered by my love for the > > > > > > freedom of others. > > > > > > > That 's after I regained myself and meticulously gave up all else, > > > > > > including what other people think and believe. > > > > > > > The Bhopal tragedy is about how we feel, think and behave when we > > > > > > are > > > > > > preoccupied with our worth reflecting off how others feel and think > > > > > > about us, off our social and corporate status, our properties, bank > > > > > > balance, off how the life we lead and the things we consume compare > > > > > > with advertised symbols and stereotypes. > > > > > > > The aspect I refer to is particularly obvious in how people behaved > > > > > > AFTER the accident occured. What they did ( rather, did not ) > > > > > > however > > > > > > was carried from before, in their value system, which again is > > > > > > immediately rooted in our failure to de - identify with imagined > > > > > > finite personalities we believe to be real, in our failure to find > > > > > > our > > > > > > peace in our mind, and be at peace with all there is in the > > > > > > universe. > > > > > > > In truth, this world needs no help. We just have to stop harming it. > > > > > > > Clearly, people who do the most harm are learned and ( often, > > > > > > impeccably ) educated, well approved by the society, legally > > > > > > abiding, > > > > > > politically welcomed, medically fit, psychologically sound, very > > > > > > schooled in science and arts, smart and adept at logic and rational > > > > > > thinking ... frequently, iconic to large, very large number of > > > > > > aspirants driven to step up and seize our future. > > > > > > > The question is : What is the anti - dote ? What should we do > > > > > > today, > > > > > > to depart a little more assured regarding the future ... in terms > > > > > > of > > > > > > people doing less harm to the world, the environment, to other > > > > > > people, > > > > > > women and children, animals ... really, there is nothing to > > > > > > exclude ... in view of the likely fact that more of the same would > > > > > > change nothing, if not worsen matters ? > > > > > > > I am aware some individuals feel challenged, even confronted, > > > > > > because > > > > > > I suggest from experience that which works ... there, in the first > > > > > > two lines of this post. The contentious part is that I see having > > > > > > more > > > > > > of the same politics, science, economics, society, justice, > > > > > > medicine, > > > > > > psychology, arts, logic, rational thinking, celebrity hood ... as > > > > > > fundamentally futile, in this absence of something very basic that > > > > > > would render all of the above disciplines useful, good, beneficial, > > > > > > least harmful. > > > > > > > Between us, it's the only thing that matters. > > > > > > > On Dec 5, 3:01 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Being an activist is good for the individual and for those > > > > > > > directly > > > > > > > affected by the motive. However, for sure in the end no great > > > > > > > change > > > > > > > can take place without activism on a grand scale, the meeting of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > minds, idealism in the pluralistic sense. From Green Peace to > > > > > > > Mother > > > > > > > Teresa we can see that things really still remain the same and > > > > > > > unless > > > > > > > there exists a global mindset concerning any and all crucial > > > > > > > issues, > > > > > > > we'll continue to ride the carousel of social complacency. > > > > > > > Scream too > > > > > > > loud and your brakes will suddenly cease to function while your > > > > > > > crossing an expansion bridge, your car will plummet into the > > > > > > > depths of > > > > > > > the sea rendering it unavailable for inspection to expose foul > > > > > > > play. > > > > > > > If you just scream a little you'll wake up to authorities > > > > > > > ransacking > > > > > > > your digs to uncover the planted controlled substances that will > > > > > > > put > > > > > > > you in a little cage for the next 20 years where you can scream > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > you want about the indignities of such confinements. Freedom and > > > > > > > liberty are all but an illusion based upon conformity to the > > > > > > > powers > > > > > > > that be. These corporate entities knew decades > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
