I want to add to what you said that made alot of senses That a level of understanding
On Dec 8, 10:58 pm, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > " If freedom is my nature and my realization of it is intrinsic then > all else must reach the same level of understanding before they can > experience the same freedom, I can't give it to them as much as I > yearn for all people to have freedom. It is an individual experience > derived from our own mental capacity to understand and initiate it." > > There are two conscious entities here : YOU ( or I ) and HIM ( the > other person ). It is I who must know my true nature and, by that > knowledge, conclude the true nature of the other as well, whether he > knows or not. Behaviourally, I am guided by what I know, not by what > the other person does not ( know ). However, in doing so, I run into > emotional barriers and ego conflicts which, in summary, entraps me in > a time warp anchored in what the other person knows and believes in > his state of ' ignorance.' When thus faced with the barrier and > conflict, I have a choice to make in my understanding : Is the other > person's nature different from, other than, what I have concluded in > respect of myself ? It is only when we persist at remaining > consistent that we choose to conclude in favour of identity, and spot > actual or/and assumed situational weaknesses or knowledge gap as being > the causes that leave the other person with his imagined identity > deeply seated at the head of his beliefs. > > The rest is easy, having a simple dependence on the answer to the > question : Am I in a position to say or do something that would start > the process of bridging the spotted knowledge gap ? Or, to say, do or > give something that would insulate the person from one or more his > actual or/and assumed situational weaknesses, for howsoever small > duration, in which period he may have the breather to become aware, > even if just a glimpse, of what it is to be free ( of the those > situational weaknesses ). Mostly, there is little scope with people > who are power - drunk, who have the ' means ' and no reason to change > or examine themselves. With others, the weak or the underpriviledged, > those you have assessed are good at heart, it's just a matter of doing > ( giving, in his view ) something unexpected : lunch or drinks in a > high profile outlet he cannot even think of ... help when he asks but > least expects ... an understanding or empathy or counsel or company > that show a respect or solidarity he has not had in ages ... the aim > for us in all of it being the desire for the other person to wake up > to his own dignity, strength, freedom, and the sense of being as > priviledged and precious as any other bloke about. There ought to be > nothing in it for ourself, not even an expectation of a desired > result, which could go anywhich way in immediate terms. > > " Much of this stems from my belief in soul levels and previous life > experiences wherein those that are relatively new beings just don't > have the where with all to understand such concepts of freedom. > Instead they are groping about the mundane realm trying to find what > exists elsewhere. Therefore I've always stated that I don't engage the > external nor take part in much of it ..." > > I am suspicious of anything that presents linearity, or seems > ( delightfully ) linear. I know we cannot do without linear > perceptions in our life or professions, especially as a scientist / > analyst and accountant / businessman. But, in the mind - boggling > subtle and causal worlds, the effects follow laws I have not > fathomed. > > Of these domains, what I seem to know are at best superstitions that > often come true ! > > On Dec 9, 5:18 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Yes, much said with which we are in accord and it does bring me back > > to a brush I had with Lee not long ago about having to be overly > > concerned with the welfare of others in distress when I stood fast > > with the idea that there was nothing I could do about it other than to > > recognize it and move on. If freedom is my nature and my realization > > of it is intrinsic then all else must reach the same level of > > understanding before they can experience the same freedom, I can't > > give it to them as much as I yearn for all people to have freedom. It > > is an individual experience derived from our own mental capacity to > > understand and initiate it. Much of this stems from my belief in > > soul levels and previous life experiences wherein those that are > > relatively new beings just don't have the where with all to understand > > such concepts of freedom. Instead they are groping about the mundane > > realm trying to find what exists elsewhere. Therefore I've always > > stated that I don't engage the external nor take part in much of it, > > the societies, politics and all the rest are not part of my world and > > it won't change no matter how much people think it will and when it > > appears that it has changed shortly after it regresses back. I think > > society is in a regression stage right now and possibly for the last 3 > > decades, we've lost much of what had been gained. Perhaps in another > > 10,000 years we may have it right but I won't know unless I'm living > > in those times and have awareness of my current life, chances are slim > > that we can find that exact identity with out past life histories. > > Based on my own personal experiences I'm sure that there is more to > > this life than just the experience of being here now. > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4fWN6VvgKQ > > > On Dec 8, 1:21 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > " When the understanding is clear and constant ... " > > > > Which is the whole method. And, we can do it only in our mind, > > > individually, before having any worthwhile expectations in terms of > > > cooperative and ethical behaviour in our societies, politics, > > > economics, law, administration ... the best of which would be sympton > > > focussed and post - facto. > > > > It takes a transforming experience, to so awaken into this > > > understanding forever, clear and constant, to this memory ' organ ' > > > that automatically precludes all these seeming values which conflicts > > > with or comes contrary to it ... the age - old god and devil > > > metaphor. > > > > In its absence, the failures and destruction will just ' happen ' > > > and we will continue with our post - mortem activities, our whines and > > > laments, our fear found yap yapping, mounds of labyrinthine research > > > and rationalisations, and this sea of money chasing print and audio - > > > visuals we are forever submerged in ! > > > > Agreed, it all leads somewhere, but hardly. > > > > On Dec 7, 10:51 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Yeah, that does seem to be an extra, needless or even impossible > > > > burden ... to be concentrated on other people's freedom and liberty. > > > > > That one is concentrated on one's own is readily understood, as being > > > > most desirable and important. What we still need to understand that we > > > > do do truly understand our own freedom without concommitantly having > > > > this understanding and love for the freedom of others. In absence of > > > > the latter clarity, one could be pursuing anything except freedom in > > > > truth, perhaps a disease as I see it. > > > > > Our limits to doing is no barrier to our understanding, in truth. I > > > > might not be able, left with anything or be able to spare enough of > > > > myself, to do anything meaningful or significant in the cause of > > > > freedom of others ; that, however, does not lessen in the least my > > > > clear understanding that other individuals are the same as me, have > > > > the same need and nature, that my freedom and those of all I regard as > > > > ' mine ' is contingent upon all others awakening into this same > > > > freedom, in their respective nature. It needs nothing ... not science, > > > > education, smart thinking, money, status, celebrityhood ... for one to > > > > step up and say as much, to restore this freedom in the mind ( and > > > > heart ) of each person we communicate to, live with, relate to, or > > > > interact with. > > > > > This becomes clear when the freedom I speak of is understood to rest > > > > in our realisation. It demands the freedom to work at being free from > > > > fear, from basic needs, being free to choose and pursue happiness. > > > > > When the understanding is clear and constant, we not only come to act > > > > in its light but seldom fail to do so. > > > > > On Dec 7, 6:36 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > You mean power 'over' the external, when the external has no bearing > > > > > on the intrinsic freedom. I don't think that the external is a > > > > > reflection of the internal unless you are considering that as being a > > > > > reflection of the internal "whole", in the collective sense. I would > > > > > agree with Vam that freedom is my nature but I drop off in the > > > > > worrying about others freedom which essentially lies within their own > > > > > ability to understand freedom as being intrinsic. > > > > > > On Dec 6, 7:58 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I agree, Vam, that freedom is intrinsic, and conformity to perceived > > > > > > external powers may be a distraction from the fact that everything > > > > > > external is a reflection of the internal. The word "conformity" > > > > > > implies not only separation between the two, but an emphasis of > > > > > > "power" on the external. Freedom cannot be discovered there. > > > > > > > On Dec 5, 10:30 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > " Freedom and liberty are all but an illusion based upon > > > > > > > conformity to > > > > > > > the powers that be." > > > > > > > > I find freedom is my nature. It is only tempered by my love for > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > freedom of others. > > > > > > > > That 's after I regained myself and meticulously gave up all > > > > > > > else, > > > > > > > including what other people think and believe. > > > > > > > > The Bhopal tragedy is > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
