Not to be taken too seriously :-) (with apologies to Sheryl Crow)
Background music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5ouOa9k0gE&feature=related This aint no troll pit, it aint no chat-room either, This is Minds Eye All I want to do is make my point and make it clear, Says the girl/guy posting next to me. It’s apropos of nothing He/she says his/her name is Twirlip or Twirl, And he/she’s never made his/her point clear in his/her whole life. And the good fiddlers of the world are debunking religion On their lunchbreaks, refuting faith and knocking down God, But they’re nothing like Twirlip and me, cause All I want to do is make my point, I don’t care if it gets the others’ noses out of joint, All I want to do is make my point, While enlightenment shines down along the Google Groups Boulevard. I like a good touch of wisdom whenever I come in here, And Twirlip likes to agonize about his/her life, He/she peels the layers from the problems Of his/her history and character. And he/she’s wondering about what the others are thinking. A couple of monists come into the group, dangerously one with each other, the moderators look up from their computers … And all I want to do is make my point, I don’t care if it gets the others’ noses out of joint, All I want to do is make my point, While enlightenment shines down along the Google Groups Boulevard. Otherwise the group is ours, the monists and the pantheists too, the atheists, the godswankers, believers and materialists, the nuts and the trolls but All I want to do is make my point, I don’t care if it gets the others’ noses out of joint, All I want to do is make my point, While enlightenment shines down along the Google Groups Boulevard. On 18 Jan., 20:02, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > I think your idea falls apart when comparing our virtual salon to IRL > conversations. Allow me to elaborate: > > If someone walked into a bar for the first time, and was subject to a jerk > hassling them, would that then reflect on the bar itself? Perhaps, if this > was a repeated incident occurring with multiple regular patrons. In most > cases, however, it's simply that there are jerks everywhere you go. > > There's no "shadow" for ME to own, given that the basis of your entire > premise is based on you walking into a virtual bar, having a bad encounter > with a patron, and then spending a whole lot of time dwelling on that > encounter, and what it says about "the bar", which in reality, is nothing. > In fact, given that this virtual bar stepped up fairly quickly to correct > out of line behaviour, your premise is entirely fallacious. > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 1:01 PM, Twirlip <[email protected]> wrote: > > I think this is worth explaining, even if it is not worth pursuing > > very far (perhaps only adding to the "noise" for which I have already > > been censured by more than one moderator). > > > After I was subjected to a verbal onslaught here a day or two ago > > (only a day or two after I joined), after the initial surprise and > > shock and anger had passed, I reflected that it might be a kind of > > "test". > > > By this I meant two different things, which however might be related > > to one another. (One thing that I didn't mean, by the way, was that it > > was any kind of deliberate initiation or hazing ritual!) > > > I had no intention of posting about this, until today, when almost the > > first thing that greeted me after I got out of bed was another such > > verbal onslaught, from a different member of the group.(I would have > > been far less bothered if it had only been the same person again.) > > > I don't think I coped with the latest onslaught too badly; but, as I > > said, at least two moderators criticised me for my response, and I was > > threatened with a ban if I persisted. > > > If I hadn't been ordered not to post any more in that thread (even > > though it was started specifically to rant at me!), and promised not > > to do so, I would naturally be posting these thoughts there; so, the > > moderators will presumably consider this whole thread as more "noise", > > and possibly even, if not a banning offence, then a reason for > > returning me to moderation. > > > I think it is worth taking that risk, because I think that this is > > philosophical information, not noise. > > > The first sense in which I thought that a personal attack on me in a > > group like this might be a "test" was that it might be incumbent on me > > to regard it as a challenge to accept the assault in a philosophical > > spirit (in a familiar everyday sense of "philosophical"), and not to > > respond in a petty egotistical way, or with too much self-pity (not > > that I think that self-pity is altogether a bad thing), but to be > > rational and ethical, and to see what I, at least, might learn from > > the encounter. > > > For instance, even if I might not have done anything to deserve such > > an attack, might it not nevertheless be a kind of karma? (I use the > > word very loosely.) And, even though the person hounded me, and > > accused me of stalking and harassing him, and this was ridiculous, > > might each of in some unconscious way have been shadowing the other? > > (Again, no precise use of language is here intended.) > > > But such questions are mainly for me to think about, and not to post > > about here. > > > What I think does make it worth taking the risk of posting this > > article is that the second sense in which I thought those events (and > > today I thought this morning's events) might be a "test" is one which > > I think has meaning for more than just me. > > > I have long wondered how one tests ideas about minds, given (what for > > me is axiomatic, although others may dispute) that the scientific > > method is not applicable. I have brooded for a long time about the > > need for a movement in psychology and ethics which is progressive in > > way analogous to the way in which science is progressive, yet (at > > least for me) cannot possibly be literally considered to be > > scientific. > > > I don't want to get banned for excessive verbosity, and this article > > is getting a bit long already, so I'll cut to the chase. [Where on > > Earth does that phrase come from?] > > > We all have ideas about minds, persons, selves. One of my reasons for > > being here, probably my main reason, and probably also one of the > > reasons why many others are here, is to test out such ideas in > > discussion, and learn new ideas, and modify ideas in discussion. > > > Of course, we also have ideas about other things (also to be subjected > > to the same trial by dialogue), but it is only ideas about "minds, > > persons, selves" to which what I'm saying here is at all relevant. > > > The test is: how do such ideas survive when things go "wrong" in the > > group? Can they even help to put "wrong" things "right", or do the > > "wrong" things have to be banned? (Presumably /some/ do, such as spam, > > or deliberate trolling.) > > > When conversation results from something going wrong here, is such > > conversation only a distraction, is it only "noise", or can some of > > it, at least, be seen as a part of the total philosophical enterprise, > > perhaps in analogy to the way that engineering is related to science? > > > Can Minds Eye own its shadow? > > > (OK, here goes. I am hoping that this will lead to a discussion, not > > to a ban from discussion, but my luck in such matters is bad, so I > > can't be too hopeful, just a little bit brave. Prepare the hemlock!) > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > ""Minds Eye"" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]<minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups > > .com> > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
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