On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 1:46 PM, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > Empathy is always difficult and often unnecessary when the person need > only quit reacting emotionally to everything and think honestly about > themselves.
Almost nobody can actually do this. Not even badass Vulcan science officer Spock. > > Schizophrenia is just a term describing a non-normal mental-chemical > process that allows hallucinations. It is nothing in and of itself, > many people are affected and have no other problems. Public perception > is the problem, as well as lack of knowledge. Rather than be hurt or > accept stigmatisation, every person must research further and see 1) > if it applies, 2) how it applies/affects, 3) whether or not it is > detrimental and requires medication, 4) how to be functional in > reality rather than the created mindscape. It's also not uncommon behavior in adolescents with serious family problems and/or abandonment issues. One of the reasons I believe autism is on the rise has more to do with divorce and absent parents then any actual chemical differences in the brain. A child under stress worrying about whether his parents love him is going to likely have issues. These kids often get over it. Some never do. I personally believe in most cases the medication causes more problems then it solves. Once you start down the anti-psychotic path you're pretty much locked in. Going off your meds is dangerous. > > A serious problem is that far too many schizophrenics are given a free > pass for religion. unicorns, elves, demons, flies, etc. are all > imaginings treated and viewed to be terrible; yet religious examples > (when the problem figment is monotheistic generally) are given pats on > the back by well meaning enablers. Sadly, statistics show that > religious schizophrenics are by far the most dangerous and least > deserving of such a free pass. When a person sees and hears god they > are given freedom although the delusion determines that anything is > allowed or reasonable, when a person sees or hears fairies they are > immediately diagnosed and most often medicated although the chances > of them harming themselves and others is negligible. This is not to > say a person suffering religious delusions need be forcibly medicated > or imprisoned, only that understanding the root electro-chemical > causes will help the person not fall into the traps of those that came > before and caused harm. If the delusion is harmless perhaps it is more beneficial to encourage it or at least not destroy the illusion that keeps them relatively happy. As you say, far too often religion is anything but harmless. These kinds of religion I'm against. dj > > On Feb 5, 11:02 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: >> A very interesting post, fiddler. One thing puzzles me, though. As >> someone who describes himself as non-neuro-typical, surely you, of all >> people, must be aware of the linguistic innacuracy of the term >> "schizophrenia" (given your concern with accuracy in language), as >> well as the deep unfairness, hurt and stigmatisation associated with >> tossing around labels associated with what many regard as mental >> illness? Or is this sort of empathy irrelevant or non-existent in your >> particular perception? >> >> Francis >> >> On 5 Feb., 19:00, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> > I'm not a neuro-typical. My delivery is often a cause of contention >> > and there is precious little I can do to change that. >> > I've been repeatedly toldhere that I'm "hate filled" and I view this >> > as an attack as well as untrue. I don't have all of the emotion flying >> > about unchecked that most people do. My emotions are simple and >> > applied where they serve me best. When people like allan try to apply >> > their own mental state to me, it is offensive and I will respond. No >> > degradation was intended by that sentence, I was merely pointing out >> > that I have both the capability and knowledge to do what he accused me >> > of doing in methods and using information far better than he credits >> > me with. >> > I'm not adversarial, I simply have difficulty trying not to hurt >> > peoples feelings. I get to "D" by following a well dilineated mental >> > path that draws available information, by way of "A","B", and "C." >> > From the moment of my first post, I've had a moderator pester me. If I >> > get banned so be it. I haven't invested emotion here and don't plan >> > to. >> > Just because I apply my emotions to my interests and family does not >> > mean that I cannot be offended, however. I simply don't become angry. >> > What offends me is the purposeful destruction of language for personal >> > and self-serving application. Without precise language I would not be >> > able to communicate, something that is already difficult for myself >> > and those like me. Knowledge and information are paramount, that is >> > why we tend to do jobs neuro-typicals have difficulty in; such as >> > science, innovative technologies, exploration, research, etc.. I can >> > see the colours of physics in action, I can hear the sound of >> > trigonometry and calculus, I can taste the developement of planets and >> > suns. When less people are neuro-typical, more people will understand >> > me. >> >> > You didn't ask for all of this info, but I tire of being told what I >> > think, intend, feel, or whatnot. Please note that I didn't personally >> > attack him, I merely described what is quite visible and even proudly >> > stated. I have come to understand that, for some reason, a few of the >> > posters here are allowed carte blanche in personal insults and >> > dismissing other peoples intelligence. I simply don't like that game >> > and don't play it. I say what I mean and expect others to do the same, >> > no matter how many times the typicals show they have no interest in >> > doing so. What I view as an observation is simply that, no offence is >> > hiding behind the words. When i insult, I do it well and devestatingly >> > to a point. >> >> > And for vam and others that will now say "AH HA, you are insulted so >> > the insult must be true!" I'm not insulted. It does not recquire being >> > wounded to know when someone aims and shoots at you. >> >> > On Feb 5, 9:28 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:35 AM, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > I don't care about slamming you, although it wouldn't be difficult if >> > > > I wanted to. I simply use the information that you provided. You admit >> > > > delusions both auditory and visual: schizophrenia. You enjoy them and >> > > > have elevated them to divine: reluctance to medicate. Yes, that is an >> > > > old adage. >> >> > > Fiddler, I agree with most of your opinions if not always in the way >> > > you present them. I rarely offer advice unless asked and this would >> > > be the first time I've ever done anything like what I'm about to do. >> > > With that ominous lead in I'll get right to it. >> >> > > It is quite possible to get your ideas and opinions across without >> > > degrading your interlocutor. Sentences like the first one in your >> > > post above are simply unnecessary. You could easily have phrased this >> > > differently and gotten your opinion across just as well if not better. >> > > I believe you have the writing skills. The only reason I'm saying >> > > anything is because I'd like you to stick around and if you keep your >> > > tone adversarial the moderators will start pestering you and then >> > > you'll get your feelings hurt and leave. I'd rather not see that >> > > happen. >> >> > > dj >> >> > > > On Feb 4, 11:02 pm, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> Interesting Fid, >> >> > > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:43 AM, fiddler <[email protected]> >> > > >> wrote: >> > > >> > You see what you choose to see. If you knew how little emotion I >> > > >> > have >> > > >> > invested in random strangers in online chat groups... I have even >> > > >> > less >> > > >> > invested in unmedicated schizophrenics. >> >> > > >> So your argument is that if you can not slam them you call the person >> > > >> an >> > > >> unmedicated schizophrenic that is very kind of you to give me your >> > > >> medical >> > > >> diagnosis.. I think I will stick with my friends that are actually >> > > >> doctors >> > > >> and psychiatrist. I am not a doctor and can not give a diagnosis but >> > > >> there >> > > >> is an old adage what we see in others is exactly what we see in our >> > > >> selves. >> > > >> Allan >> >> > > >> On Feb 3, 11:27 pm, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > >> > I understand Orn when I read what fid is writing I do not see an >> > > >> > exchange >> > > >> > of ideas but what appears to be a foaming hate filled being. If he >> > > >> > is >> > > >> going >> > > >> > to university with an attitude like that it would be a wonder if he >> > > >> > could >> > > >> > get through even a single class. >> > > >> > Allan >> >> > > >> > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 12:32 AM, ornamentalmind < >> > > >> > [email protected]>wrote: >> >> > > >> > > > Truth be told...I cut fid a lot of slack. He's going to >> > > >> > > > university, >> > > >> > > > studying a lot of stuff, interacting on numerous online >> > > >> > > > groups....I >> > > >> > > > know that more than once I hurried through posts missing the >> > > >> > > > intent. >> > > >> > > > Oh, and I also remember when I knew a lot of stuff and knew >> > > >> > > > others >> > > >> > > > didnt...and attempted to put interaction and discussion into a >> > > >> > > > box...with tenets and rules and all of that...which I'd attempt >> > > >> > > > to >> > > >> > > > impose on everyone else. Doing such things surely make the >> > > >> > > > universe a >> > > >> > > > more 'friendly', if not understood, place. >> >> > > >> > > > On Feb 3, 2:12 pm, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> > > > > Fid you are dealing with a bunch of old people here who ahve >> > > >> > > > > been >> > > >> > around >> > > >> > > > the >> > > >> > > > > bush a time or two. >> >> > > >> > > > > Since you like simple sentences I will give you one to ponder. >> >> > > >> > > > > I know God is real because I have meet and seen him. He has >> > > >> > > > > spoken to >> > > >> > me. >> > > >> > > > I >> > > >> > > > > have spoken to him, and which is even more amazing he is my >> > > >> > > > > friend. >> > > >> > > > > Allan >> >> > > >> > > > > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 5:53 PM, fiddler >> > > >> > > > > <[email protected]> >> > > >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > > > > When you learn the difference between personal bias and >> > > >> > > > > > dogma I >> > > >> > will >> > > >> > > > > > be quite impressed. >> >> > > >> > > > > > On Feb 3, 8:31 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> > > > > > > Hahahah you are a funny one Fidds, and you still have >> > > >> > > > > > > just not >> > > >> > got it >> > > >> > > > > > > yet I see. >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Dogma - >> >> > > >> > > > > > > 1. a system of principles or tenets, as of a church. >> > > >> > > > > > > 2. a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid >> > > >> > > > > > > down, as by >> > > >> > a >> > > >> > > > > > > church: the dogma of the Assumption. >> > > >> > > > > > > 3. prescribed doctrine: political dogma. >> > > >> > > > > > > 4. a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Your insistance that those of religious faith are, not >> > > >> > intelectual, >> > > >> > > > > > > peddle nonsense, and are liars is certianly evidance of >> > > >> > > > > > > number 4 >> > > >> > on >> > > >> > > > > > > the list above. So indeed yes I agree we should all >> > > >> > > > > > > learn what >> > > >> > the >> > > >> > > > > > > words we use mean. >> >> > > >> > > > > > > As to labeling people my friend you have not ceased doing >> > > >> > > > > > > that >> > > >> > from >> > > >> > > > > > > the moment you joined us. Umm pot - kettle me thinks. >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Yet another angry man who can dish it yet cannot take it. >> >> > > >> > > > > > > On 3 Feb, 16:20, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > I really overestimated your intelligence... >> > > >> > > > > > > > Listen fundie: quit telling me what I think, promote, >> > > >> > > > > > > > desire, >> > > >> > or >> > > >> > > > mean. >> > > >> > > > > > > > I know you people like reading volumes into sentences, >> > > >> > > > > > > > but it >> > > >> > never >> > > >> > > > > > > > looks well on you. Learn what simple concepts like dogma >> > > >> > actually >> > > >> > > > > > > > mean, your priest and those fundie websites lie to you. >> > > >> > > > > > > > Just >> > > >> > > > because >> > > >> > > > > > > > you feel the need to label people with your own >> > > >> > > > > > > > handicaps does >> > > >> > not >> > > >> > > > > > > > make it so, it just insures you won't understand what >> > > >> > > > > > > > other >> > > >> > people >> > > >> > > > are >> > > >> > > > > > > > talking about. >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > On Feb 3, 7:01 am, ornamentalmind >> > > >> > > > > > > > <[email protected]> >> > > >> > > > wrote: >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > > “…I'm against children having their minds polluted by >> > > >> > mysticism, >> > > >> > > > > > > > > nonsense, and lies perpetrated by politicians and >> > > >> > > > > > > > > priests.” – >> > > >> > fid >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > > Then you must be for removing children from their >> > > >> > > > > > > > > parents at >> > > >> > a >> > > >> > > > very >> > > >> > > > > > > > > young age and raising them in ‘free thinking’ >> > > >> > > > > > > > > enclaves…thus >> > > >> > > > > > protecting >> > > >> > > > > > > > > them from all of what your dogma defines as >> > > >> > > > > > > > > ‘nonsense’. >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > > On >> >> ... >> >> read more »- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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