"...Thurman and any reasonable spiritual enquiry starts in evasion of our reality - this doesn't negate it all, yet leaves us in a kind of nowhere of possibilities,.." - archy
Perhaps I miss your point, but I see it quite differently...first, not as evasion. And, when it comes to possibilities, if anything, I see them as being increased...rose colored glasses again? On Mar 1, 8:25 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Commenting on Machiavelli (actually somewhat simplistic when I read > the originals), Francis Bacon said he was merely a 'realist'. I > suspect Popper hit the nail on the head when he said it hardly matters > who leads, what matters is our ability to control them. This is an > old story from Aristotle. Science tends to hold everything is > complicated and that it's somewhat amazing there ever is any > simplicity. > Molly's piece in this thread is pretty good, but it's ethos is easily > destroyed once thrown into the shark bowl. Rigsby points to views on > depression I find interesting. The view in the link he provides is > that normal thinking is depressive and that focusing on what is going > on triggers more of it. Nearly everything around us is distractive, > and this has long been a main function of religion. Cynicism can take > the same distractive form. > Thurman only makes me wonder why so few people are remotely bothered > with what we are doing here and what a better life might be. I prefer > women's netball to soccer these days, but this is hardly a > 'groundswell'. Life is much less than I was brought up to believe it > was or could be, and I find human beings doing remarkably little. > Freud's ultimate argument is that we push reality away (under the > carpet). > My interests are in what we could positively do to live in peace and > find some purpose, though I've spent most of my time avoiding this as > it is depressing to think it. We don't seem even to be able to grasp > what has already failed, particularly the millennial leader stuff. In > Britain, we still worship the idiots who have have destroyed us and > what might have come from the Enlightenment. We may not even vote > Nulabour out and they have gerrymandered the whole country. The > temptation in Thurman and any reasonable spiritual enquiry starts in > evasion of our reality - this doesn't negate it all, yet leaves us in > a kind of nowhere of possibilities, in short in the Kantian sublime of > utterly potential thought and no biology. We've been utterly had by > this before. > > There's a book out on the 'Secret 30 year war with Iran'. We have > been at war with Iran for eons. Most of us know little of this or > human history generally. We do not enter the 'deconstruction' needed > to establish a fair base for enquiry and flit off into 'spiritualism' > or just chugg along with unvalidated beliefs in the myths that let us > in-group (kill the Muslim bastards, slaughter the Infidels etc.). Orn > said somewhere in his chicken counting above that there is a shortage > of resources. Is there? Or do we have a system that creates shortage > to control? I actually empathise with peaceful religious spirit, but > generally only find words where there should be more to convince me > I'm not just listening to another political crook or sectist weirdo. > > On 1 Mar, 07:14, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Sure did Arch, not many bags are shrouded in secrecy in a room full of > > neurotics. I would think Freud was a bit touched himself given his > > depth of understanding and analysis of such, probably stemming from > > much introspection. I think societies, in an attempt to avoid having > > to face the sad realities of failed truth seeking, tend to obfuscation > > of it all via orgasmic pursuits. Its all about pleasure in an > > unpleasant world isn't it? Hedonism is born of the awareness that > > playing according to the rules of others usually leads to less than > > ideal circumstances save for those issuing the rules. This is > > especially true when the rules seem to require forfeiture of many > > amenities. One way to get out of a deep pit is to kill everyone else > > in it and climb out on piled up bodies, such is the methodology behind > > corporate ladders. The geography of politics is clear cut and linear, > > no gray. We either get renewed or we get screwed, mostly the later > > while ulterior motives of the actors usually takes precedence over > > establishing honest policy. Surely Blair's super ego was being stroked > > by the Bushies and a beautiful picture was created, and huge "oil" > > painting but the black gold never arrived, only red soaked military > > accoutrement packed in bags. The harsh reality set in on all sides > > but the debacle became the burden of the commoners and future > > generations. Like you say, ancient history. > > > On Feb 28, 9:50 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Not my bag either Slipster, as you no doubt knew. When last teaching > > > research methods, my mature class was in some uproar about what I had > > > told them. Youngsters (18 plus) tend not to believe me when I tell > > > them what does happen - the oldies (30 plus) tend to nod in agreement > > > on the realities and accuse me of teaching them methods (of truth- > > > seeking) that would surely get them sacked, until they realise these > > > are for personal consumption only. All are generally eventually > > > grateful I do tell them the truth (as I can keep the sharks out of the > > > fish-bowl of the classroom), as it forewarns them against blurting any > > > out at work. > > > The standard works these days are a book by Campbell called 'The > > > Liar's Tale' and stuff to be found at Standford EP on-line under > > > 'dirty hands philosophy'. Machiavelli would do with Orwell's 1984 and > > > commentary. I usually use a couple of films - 'The Rise and Rise of > > > Michael Rimmer' (Peter Cook' and another called 'Beer' (US). There > > > are many more. Students are generally surprised at how ancient you > > > can take this, how much academic material there is and that they can > > > find (led to the trough) articles from 1910 that look like they were > > > written about now on 'statistics'. > > > When it comes to sanctimonious crap and morons, Derrida and his > > > henchpeople serve rather well. 'The Wire' does better, even > > > 'Generation Kill'. There's a fair BBC one-off called 'On Expenses' on > > > BBC Iplayer at the moment. One recent colleague was disgusted with me > > > because 20 of his students left his psychoanalysis class after doing > > > my lecture on 'What Freud thought of the common man' (not much). > > > This still leaves room for consideration of better places to be. > > > > On 1 Mar, 02:52, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Well then Archy, I guess maybe we have hit on the reasons Atheism is > > > > growing and why the Dalai Lama matters in the world. Perhaps at least > > > > there is no expectations, no suppose to be and nothing to worry > > > > about. All the rest offers boundaries and guidelines probably meant > > > > to be broken anyway. I believe in nothing therefore all is good and I > > > > didn't sin because I ate meat last Friday nor will I go to hell > > > > because I took a matter into hand and camelot as part of my prostate > > > > cancer prevention program. If there really is some reasoning behind > > > > all this chaos, torment and sanctimonious crap I would have to say the > > > > perpetrator of it all is a moron. > > > > > On Feb 28, 7:14 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Thieves had a habit of saying 'prove it copper' Slip. Quite why the > > > > > scum thought I would deign to talk to them if I couldn't, I never > > > > > found out. Much harder with the political class as we can't get the > > > > > right warrants. Anyone who thinks any of this is modern should note > > > > > 'statistics' is an ancient Greek word and note Orwell died a long time > > > > > ago. It's now out that Blair was clinically depressed by Iraq and > > > > > being done over by the Americans, though he failed to mention this > > > > > giving evidence recently. We know about the lying, which is done > > > > > secure in the knowledge the evidence is well-hidden. The question is > > > > > whether we really want to try something else. Proof that official > > > > > systems are bent is always an independent enquiry away, as opposed to > > > > > the ritual cover-ups we call Public Enquiries etc. > > > > > > On 1 Mar, 00:19, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Sure Vam, but sometimes there is fear in honesty as well, as the > > > > > > truth > > > > > > may be hard and painful and when dishonesty can ease the pain. > > > > > > Personal honesty is to no avail and sometimes a detriment when the > > > > > > fish bowl is full of sharks, it is deceit that offers protection and > > > > > > security. Much of our survival impinges upon our ability to hide, > > > > > > mask, camouflage and conceal truisms concerning our personal world. > > > > > > Therefore through this paradigm of life circumstance we can see that > > > > > > dishonesty is an element consistent in all forms. If you all knew I > > > > > > was worth 3.4 billion you would be asking to borrow and so I have to > > > > > > be dishonest and play this poverty game in order to keep you all off > > > > > > my back. Honesty in a den of thieves is basically being honest > > > > > > about > > > > > > each others dishonesty as being dishonest is their business. When > > > > > > one > > > > > > of the thieves comes in with a prize the rest know it wasn't > > > > > > purchased > > > > > > and so the thief would be dishonest to say it was and so in all > > > > > > honesty he tells the tale of the theft, thereby being honest about > > > > > > his > > > > > > dishonesty. Do you think men date women because they are pretty and > > > > > > have a brain? You see the ramifications of (dis)honesty are endless. > > > > > > We can never really be whole in that sense but the problems arise > > > > > > when > > > > > > each crosses over too far onto the other side, when it really > > > > > > matters > > > > > > and consequences occur, when trust is at stake. The politicians > > > > > > know > > > > > > how to push dishonesty to the brink without spilling over but > > > > > > sometimes there is a breach and the wall comes tumbling down and > > > > > > many > > > > > > are hurt in the aftermath. It is almost expected that dishonesty is > > > > > > part of the procedure, the plan. They can't let us know everything, > > > > > > just enough to make it all believable, like the weapons of mass > > > > > > destruction. Who has to this day > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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