On Mar 8, 5:12 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > I would guess many people are now seeing through the faking Molly, but > this isn't enough to move the social strategy on.
Perhaps you'll have reasons to relent on this dark thought in time, quite as you've done on the faking front ! I believe, we have a responsibility, a duty, not to load the world about us with our negative and desperate thoughts. One can have them, as we all do, but must have learnt through life not to allow more space or importance to them within ourself, to the exclusion of others. Ideally, we should be capable ( yes, it is a capability ! ) of wiping off our frowns and despair, our melancholy and defeatist urgings, before stepping out of our bed / room / house. It's a tough job, where most decent and righteous people fail, inadvertently strengthening the hands of the indecent, the illiberal and the unjust. All's well, even our despair, defeats and losses ! Let me paraphrase a Buddha quote : Your work is to discover your world and then, with all your heart, give yourself to it. Nothing can be more practical than that. No space or time for arguments. Only the realisation ... yes, our work is well etched and cut out ... and the extent of execution. > > On 4 Mar, 10:01, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > fake honesty! Oh lovely paradox! > > > On Mar 4, 1:06 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I think we need the honesty route too Molly. I simply fear it's too > > > easy to fake and that we need some way to take on 'dirty hands' > > > assumptions in the open. > > > > On 4 Mar, 01:13, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > "As for honesty, it depends on ones > > > > culture but generally we repress honesty through etiquette and > > > > education and dishonesty in varying degrees becomes acceptable. I do > > > > understand Molly thoughts about family keeping one straight but often > > > > this backfires" > > > > > I am not sure if dishonesty is culturally acceptable, but there is a > > > > great deal of it going on between people in society. I think we do > > > > ourselves and the world a disfavor when we rationalize our own > > > > dishonesty by saying that others do it so why not me. My experience > > > > is, that in direct relationships of every kind, people appreciate > > > > honesty and tire easily of dishonesty. And dishonesty with self only > > > > creates limitation, so what we think is easing our pain or making the > > > > situation easier, is really only keeping us from what we think might > > > > be uncomfortable or difficult, and in the long run, prolongs the > > > > agony. It may be difficult and painful to take an honest look at > > > > ourselves, but moving through fear is the only way to dissipate it and > > > > ease the pain and suffering. Can't avoid or deny it. There are ways to > > > > communicate with loved ones with honesty that allows for open doors > > > > and open hearts, the way to reconciliation. Do we really want to > > > > perpetuate the misery in the world, or can we have the courage to > > > > insist on honesty with ourselves and others, and show a better way? > > > > > On Mar 2, 9:35 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > As soon as my head hit the pillow I remembered the Cold War and its > > > > > impact on the Middle East and Africa.//Will check back as I just > > > > > printed a coupon for 50% off and I feel rich! A new non-stick muffin > > > > > tin and farewell to muffin liners! Yipee! > > > > > > On Mar 2, 1:37 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > One can put much of the blame on French and British mapmakers > > > > > > carving > > > > > > up the Ottoman Empire after WWI- they showed little regard for the > > > > > > natural boundaries of tribes and warlords. Also, the importance of > > > > > > oil > > > > > > was an enormous factor- for instance, I feel Kuwait was created as > > > > > > an > > > > > > ace in the hole since Iraq could be intractable.But one could also > > > > > > go > > > > > > back to Napoleon's expedition to Egypt or the Crusades or the split > > > > > > of > > > > > > Christianity between the West and the Byzantine Empire. At any rate > > > > > > a > > > > > > balance of power failed in Europe as well as the modern Middle > > > > > > East.// > > > > > > Am discovering ancient China as I hadn't known much about it- am up > > > > > > to > > > > > > the Sung Dynasty but the Mongols are right around the corner! I may > > > > > > have to read it twice as it's hard to keep everything straight since > > > > > > this survey of civilization includes a great many examples of the > > > > > > arts > > > > > > and religious influences.//You may also want to think about the > > > > > > inequities between rich and poor nations or even within nations as a > > > > > > cause of conflict and misery.//As for honesty, it depends on ones > > > > > > culture but generally we repress honesty through etiquette and > > > > > > education and dishonesty in varying degrees becomes acceptable. I do > > > > > > understand Molly thoughts about family keeping one straight but > > > > > > often > > > > > > this backfires hence sayings about keeping one's own counsel or the > > > > > > danger of what can't be unsaid, etc.//Back to Eden- first > > > > > > disobedience, then a lie and later a murder- not much of start for > > > > > > us! :-) > > > > > > > On Mar 1, 7:40 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I was thinking back to an earlier post of yours earlier Slip - the > > > > > > > 'Muslim threat'. I see 5 American Jihadis have been arrested in > > > > > > > Pakistan. We had a 'Dispatches' (Channel 4 here) documentary on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > IFE (Islamic Forum Europe). Very disturbing stuff - infiltration > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the Labour Party and a whole wad of rather nasty, corrupt > > > > > > > activities. > > > > > > > The good thing was that Muslims came forward to deplore what they > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > I would go a long way myself down the spiritual route to 'light' > > > > > > > if I > > > > > > > could feel more comfortable that the experiences would not be > > > > > > > manipulated. The idea of meeting God or the Blue Rabbit and thus > > > > > > > living under such authority does not appeal. Neither does > > > > > > > tradition > > > > > > > or just blowing that away altogether in some anarchist binge - > > > > > > > yet it > > > > > > > does seem that we could get away from the worst of what we group > > > > > > > together to do in ways that are so traditional all of history can > > > > > > > seem > > > > > > > to be about the quagmire. > > > > > > > > There's a point in Hegel (somewhere - he's truly awful) where he > > > > > > > declares we now have history. Though I doubt history has any > > > > > > > meaning > > > > > > > at all in terms of laws, I am struck that a genuine understanding > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > it 'ready-to-hand' is always missing. One only has to think of > > > > > > > posts > > > > > > > in here where a few bits of stuff supporting a particular view are > > > > > > > thrown in - perhaps on a wider scale we have the global warming > > > > > > > debacle and the lack of public explanation of why we did Iraq or > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > in Afghanistan. We end up asserting opinion that can all be > > > > > > > criticised rather than establishing facts. > > > > > > > In academic terms, one can always check the internal validity of > > > > > > > argument, and/or raise external critique that has different root > > > > > > > values or metaphors. The great bits of science tend to be where > > > > > > > someone or group bridge the areas seemingly incompatible. > > > > > > > Einstein > > > > > > > finds himself with Maxwell's equations and yet contradictory > > > > > > > experimental evidence, so fixes the kinematics underlying both. > > > > > > > Wiles > > > > > > > bridges otherwise incompatible forms of equations to get at > > > > > > > Fermat's > > > > > > > last theorem. We can look at diabetes as a disease, but then find > > > > > > > Dolphins use it as an advantage because they can switch it on and > > > > > > > off. > > > > > > > > One can see this in material Orn often suggests, certainly in Vam > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Molly - to me it's more familiar as Wittgensteinian > > > > > > > deconstruction - > > > > > > > looking for similarities deep in apparently opposing arguments. > > > > > > > What > > > > > > > I have trouble with is the assertion of another 'Hegelian moment' > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > which to know anything we have to know all or, weirdly, nothing > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > than to be in a supposition-less and pre-suppositional state, or > > > > > > > 'in > > > > > > > the light'. It all starts to feel like 'you'll be all right once > > > > > > > we've washed your brain' stuff. It starts to make me feel the way > > > > > > > politicians do when they say god will judge them. The often > > > > > > > claim to > > > > > > > have met 'Blue Rabbits' to which we have no access - trusty secret > > > > > > > service types and all. This is a general problem with > > > > > > > introspectively > > > > > > > achieved states. They are not offered to our access, but used as > > > > > > > 'authority'. > > > > > > > > It's not the short skirts mate - but the tall, athletic women. > > > > > > > Sue > > > > > > > used to play a mean game. > > > > > > > > I saw some guy say that no one would have guessed that 'dealing > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > Iraq' would have led to the emergence of Iran as a regional > > > > > > > power. I > > > > > > > thought we put Saddam in power and armed him to curb Iran? I > > > > > > > heard > > > > > > > plenty of prediction that the problems in Iraq would start after > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > basic military victory and that Iran would benefit. I've read > > > > > > > books > > > > > > > dating from 1919 suggesting much the same. The guy is some kind > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > diplomat and government advisor. Is he lying or just bafflingly > > > > > > > incompetent - or is this more of Gabby's 'what human beings are > > > > > > > made > > > > > > > to forget' strategy in action? > > > > > > > > On 1 Mar, 22:19, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I would think our reaction to modern day political deceptions > > > > > > > > makes us > > > > > > > > all realists. The reality of the fallout doesn't leave much > > > > > > > > else to > > > > > > > > consider and most voters seem unaware their vote is actually > > > > > > > > going to > > > > > > > > the Machiavellian Party. Controlling those that are voted in to > > > > > > > > control us, now that is something to think about. KP may be > > > > > > > > spot on > > > > > > > > but unfortunately it comes down to our inability and much so our > > > > > > > > impotence in hard line control. When you vote for Ben Dover > > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > what you get. Fundamentally it has become such a maze to > > > > > > > > navigate that > > > > > > > > even to consider trying to get hold of the reigns is a dizzying > > > > > > > > prospect. Sure Molly's piece is very pretty but I found it > > > > > > > > fodder for > > > > > > > > day dreaming, like getting lost in Debussy compositions on a > > > > > > > > sunny > > > > > > > > afternoon on the beach but then the reality of course, everyone > > > > > > > > out of > > > > > > > > the water, the sharks are in a financial feeding frenzy. Rigs > > > > > > > > post is > > > > > > > > interesting and I find I'd have to spend more time mulling it > > > > > > > > over, > > > > > > > > allowing for better absorption of it, the odd angle of viewing > > > > > > > > depression. Is it really the netball or the short skirt > > > > > > > > attractions? > > > > > > > > Your right about not being able to recognize our past failures, > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > least in the proper way in order to create real change. This is > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
