"As for honesty, it depends on ones culture but generally we repress honesty through etiquette and education and dishonesty in varying degrees becomes acceptable. I do understand Molly thoughts about family keeping one straight but often this backfires"
I am not sure if dishonesty is culturally acceptable, but there is a great deal of it going on between people in society. I think we do ourselves and the world a disfavor when we rationalize our own dishonesty by saying that others do it so why not me. My experience is, that in direct relationships of every kind, people appreciate honesty and tire easily of dishonesty. And dishonesty with self only creates limitation, so what we think is easing our pain or making the situation easier, is really only keeping us from what we think might be uncomfortable or difficult, and in the long run, prolongs the agony. It may be difficult and painful to take an honest look at ourselves, but moving through fear is the only way to dissipate it and ease the pain and suffering. Can't avoid or deny it. There are ways to communicate with loved ones with honesty that allows for open doors and open hearts, the way to reconciliation. Do we really want to perpetuate the misery in the world, or can we have the courage to insist on honesty with ourselves and others, and show a better way? On Mar 2, 9:35 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > As soon as my head hit the pillow I remembered the Cold War and its > impact on the Middle East and Africa.//Will check back as I just > printed a coupon for 50% off and I feel rich! A new non-stick muffin > tin and farewell to muffin liners! Yipee! > > On Mar 2, 1:37 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > One can put much of the blame on French and British mapmakers carving > > up the Ottoman Empire after WWI- they showed little regard for the > > natural boundaries of tribes and warlords. Also, the importance of oil > > was an enormous factor- for instance, I feel Kuwait was created as an > > ace in the hole since Iraq could be intractable.But one could also go > > back to Napoleon's expedition to Egypt or the Crusades or the split of > > Christianity between the West and the Byzantine Empire. At any rate a > > balance of power failed in Europe as well as the modern Middle East.// > > Am discovering ancient China as I hadn't known much about it- am up to > > the Sung Dynasty but the Mongols are right around the corner! I may > > have to read it twice as it's hard to keep everything straight since > > this survey of civilization includes a great many examples of the arts > > and religious influences.//You may also want to think about the > > inequities between rich and poor nations or even within nations as a > > cause of conflict and misery.//As for honesty, it depends on ones > > culture but generally we repress honesty through etiquette and > > education and dishonesty in varying degrees becomes acceptable. I do > > understand Molly thoughts about family keeping one straight but often > > this backfires hence sayings about keeping one's own counsel or the > > danger of what can't be unsaid, etc.//Back to Eden- first > > disobedience, then a lie and later a murder- not much of start for > > us! :-) > > > On Mar 1, 7:40 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I was thinking back to an earlier post of yours earlier Slip - the > > > 'Muslim threat'. I see 5 American Jihadis have been arrested in > > > Pakistan. We had a 'Dispatches' (Channel 4 here) documentary on the > > > IFE (Islamic Forum Europe). Very disturbing stuff - infiltration of > > > the Labour Party and a whole wad of rather nasty, corrupt activities. > > > The good thing was that Muslims came forward to deplore what they are > > > doing. > > > I would go a long way myself down the spiritual route to 'light' if I > > > could feel more comfortable that the experiences would not be > > > manipulated. The idea of meeting God or the Blue Rabbit and thus > > > living under such authority does not appeal. Neither does tradition > > > or just blowing that away altogether in some anarchist binge - yet it > > > does seem that we could get away from the worst of what we group > > > together to do in ways that are so traditional all of history can seem > > > to be about the quagmire. > > > > There's a point in Hegel (somewhere - he's truly awful) where he > > > declares we now have history. Though I doubt history has any meaning > > > at all in terms of laws, I am struck that a genuine understanding of > > > it 'ready-to-hand' is always missing. One only has to think of posts > > > in here where a few bits of stuff supporting a particular view are > > > thrown in - perhaps on a wider scale we have the global warming > > > debacle and the lack of public explanation of why we did Iraq or are > > > in Afghanistan. We end up asserting opinion that can all be > > > criticised rather than establishing facts. > > > In academic terms, one can always check the internal validity of > > > argument, and/or raise external critique that has different root > > > values or metaphors. The great bits of science tend to be where > > > someone or group bridge the areas seemingly incompatible. Einstein > > > finds himself with Maxwell's equations and yet contradictory > > > experimental evidence, so fixes the kinematics underlying both. Wiles > > > bridges otherwise incompatible forms of equations to get at Fermat's > > > last theorem. We can look at diabetes as a disease, but then find > > > Dolphins use it as an advantage because they can switch it on and off. > > > > One can see this in material Orn often suggests, certainly in Vam and > > > Molly - to me it's more familiar as Wittgensteinian deconstruction - > > > looking for similarities deep in apparently opposing arguments. What > > > I have trouble with is the assertion of another 'Hegelian moment' in > > > which to know anything we have to know all or, weirdly, nothing other > > > than to be in a supposition-less and pre-suppositional state, or 'in > > > the light'. It all starts to feel like 'you'll be all right once > > > we've washed your brain' stuff. It starts to make me feel the way > > > politicians do when they say god will judge them. The often claim to > > > have met 'Blue Rabbits' to which we have no access - trusty secret > > > service types and all. This is a general problem with introspectively > > > achieved states. They are not offered to our access, but used as > > > 'authority'. > > > > It's not the short skirts mate - but the tall, athletic women. Sue > > > used to play a mean game. > > > > I saw some guy say that no one would have guessed that 'dealing with > > > Iraq' would have led to the emergence of Iran as a regional power. I > > > thought we put Saddam in power and armed him to curb Iran? I heard > > > plenty of prediction that the problems in Iraq would start after any > > > basic military victory and that Iran would benefit. I've read books > > > dating from 1919 suggesting much the same. The guy is some kind of > > > diplomat and government advisor. Is he lying or just bafflingly > > > incompetent - or is this more of Gabby's 'what human beings are made > > > to forget' strategy in action? > > > > On 1 Mar, 22:19, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I would think our reaction to modern day political deceptions makes us > > > > all realists. The reality of the fallout doesn't leave much else to > > > > consider and most voters seem unaware their vote is actually going to > > > > the Machiavellian Party. Controlling those that are voted in to > > > > control us, now that is something to think about. KP may be spot on > > > > but unfortunately it comes down to our inability and much so our > > > > impotence in hard line control. When you vote for Ben Dover that is > > > > what you get. Fundamentally it has become such a maze to navigate that > > > > even to consider trying to get hold of the reigns is a dizzying > > > > prospect. Sure Molly's piece is very pretty but I found it fodder for > > > > day dreaming, like getting lost in Debussy compositions on a sunny > > > > afternoon on the beach but then the reality of course, everyone out of > > > > the water, the sharks are in a financial feeding frenzy. Rigs post is > > > > interesting and I find I'd have to spend more time mulling it over, > > > > allowing for better absorption of it, the odd angle of viewing > > > > depression. Is it really the netball or the short skirt attractions? > > > > Your right about not being able to recognize our past failures, at > > > > least in the proper way in order to create real change. This is the > > > > obstacle that keep us in the vicious cycle of repetitive disasters. > > > > Are there too many cooks spoiling the brew? People feign > > > > dictatorship, authoritarian and totalitarian rule but have we done > > > > much better and is the suffering that much less? Would a dictatorship > > > > be all so back if the dictator was a benevolent soul? Our pubs are > > > > too far apart for us to spend some hours further dissecting the arena > > > > of human quagmires. Gerrymandering is all over my friend and even on > > > > the local levels but we have to consider much blame goes to those > > > > accepting the bounty. In a way it is as if we don't want honesty but > > > > only want to know when it is our turn to be corrupt. I've know some > > > > really good people that turned rancid when they became politicians and > > > > others that lost my attention when they made a right turn on to the > > > > religious highway. > > > > > On Mar 1, 10:25 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Commenting on Machiavelli (actually somewhat simplistic when I read > > > > > the originals), Francis Bacon said he was merely a 'realist'. I > > > > > suspect Popper hit the nail on the head when he said it hardly matters > > > > > who leads, what matters is our ability to control them. This is an > > > > > old story from Aristotle. Science tends to hold everything is > > > > > complicated and that it's somewhat amazing there ever is any > > > > > simplicity. > > > > > Molly's piece in this thread is pretty good, but it's ethos is easily > > > > > destroyed once thrown into the shark bowl. Rigsby points to views on > > > > > depression I find interesting. The view in the link he provides is > > > > > that normal thinking is depressive and that focusing on what is going > > > > > on triggers more of it. Nearly everything around us is distractive, > > > > > and this has long been a main function of religion. Cynicism can take > > > > > the same distractive form. > > > > > Thurman only makes me wonder why so few people are remotely bothered > > > > > with what we are doing here and what a better life might be. I prefer > > > > > women's netball to soccer these days, but this is hardly a > > > > > 'groundswell'. Life is much less than I was brought up to believe it > > > > > was or could be, and I find human beings doing remarkably little. > > > > > Freud's ultimate argument is that we push reality away (under the > > > > > carpet). > > > > > My interests are in what we could positively do to live in peace and > > > > > find some purpose, though I've spent most of my time avoiding this as > > > > > it is depressing to think it. We don't seem even to be able to grasp > > > > > what has already failed, particularly the millennial leader stuff. In > > > > > Britain, we still worship the idiots who have have destroyed us and > > > > > what might have come from the Enlightenment. > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
