"WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE IS TRUE EVEN THOUGH YOU CANNOT PROVE IT?" That is the question Pat.. and I have no intention of trying to prove it. nor will I attempt to. Allan
On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 9 Mar, 20:21, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > Pat > > I have no need to ask for proof of what i know to be true. Nor do I need > to > > create strange arguments.. even science knows that a perfectly straight > > line will end at its starting point. enjoy your physics and geometry I > will > > enjoy my God. > > Allan > > > > My arguments aren't strange, they're logical. And, of course, you > aren't the only reader here. So, when I address your statements, I > address them (your statements) for a larger audience with you as a > primary audience. Whilst you may have no need of proof or even > examples, others might, so I proffer them. In my opinion, God must > work within a framework of His design and I view my 'job' as being to > discover and reveal as much of that framework and design as I can. > The doctor needn't treat the healthy but not all are healthy and some, > whilst believing thay are healthy, aren't; and some whilst believing > they are ill, aren't. And I have to address them all or I'm being > unfair. > > BTW, your example of a perfectly straight line ending at its starting > point is only true in the case of a line that extends throughout all > of space-time (and THAT assumes a curvature TO space-time, which > contradicts the 'straightness' of the line). And, since you didn't > specify the length of the line, your example is incorrect, for a > straight line that is one inch long will prove your example false. > Yet, if the one inch line is drawn around a sphere that has a > circumference of one inch, your statement is still false, as the line > is curved and not straight. I value geometry and there is much to be > learned from it. > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Pat <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > On 9 Mar, 15:32, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Whoa Pat > > > > > > > That One is beyond gender, which is why He > > > > > can't have children. Although all creatures are, in a metaphorical > > > > > sense, His children, none are, in reality, because they do not grow > up > > > > > to be omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. If any did, there'd > be > > > > > chaos, as how can you have two omnipotent entities? Logic doesn't > > > > > allow for it. > > > > > > With your statement you just separated God from the rest of the > > > universe! > > > > To me that is one of greatest mistakes made by the religions of the > > > world. > > > > I do not want to separate God as I understand him from from his > universe > > > ,, > > > > I only want to be part of it although it is only the tinest part.. > as > > > long > > > > as I am part that. That is my dream > > > > ..... > > > > > > Okay if you read your statement carefully Or better yet as I read it > you > > > > are saying God can not have children, there is nothing metaphorical > > > about > > > > Gods children. When you have a child Pat both you and the woman that > is > > > > involved are nothing more than the tool the Father Creator uses to > bring > > > > about the new child's life into the universe. As I watch new life > being > > > born > > > > into the universe whether it is a baby an ant or insect, or even > an > > > > entire galaxy I can only sit in awe at the skill and abilities of > God. > > > > > > His children, none are, in reality, because they do not grow up > > > > to be omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. > > > > > > When you start making statements like this you are in my mind > separating > > > God > > > > from his universe. Though it is suttle like placing God else where l > (he > > > is > > > > in heaven) in reality you are separating yourself from God. or > placing > > > > limits like (because they do not grow up to be...) > > > > Allan > > > > > I have no problems with limiting God. He cannot produce a spherical > > > cube, for example. Or, more simply put, God cannot NOT be God. There > > > are other limits as well, and they are all logical. In fact, all of > > > the negative commandments in the 10 commandments can be derived as > > > being based on things that God cannot do, therefore we SHOULD not do. > > > For example, God cannot create, in any single object, a thing which > > > fairly represents the entirety of God, therefore, we should not create > > > nor worship idols. My statement that God cannot have children > > > stands. That is, he cannot beget an entity that can become omnipotent > > > as there cannot be, logically, two things that are omnipotent, No > > > separations involved, only logic. One cannot be two. That's not to > > > say that One cannot 'appear' to be countless. THAT can be done via > > > extensions of the One and a given geometry. > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Pat <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > On 8 Mar, 20:42, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Well pat one of the things I can not explain is what is beyond. > . . > > > > > > > > > True. I agree. Consciousness, in my physics, doesn't exist, > per > > > se, > > > > > > > in this 4-D universe, rather, the interface to it exists here. > > > > > > > > The concept of a 4--D universeis kind of strange because it fails > to > > > > > allow > > > > > > you to be everywhere at the same time.. > > > > > > > > > > > , that is a very Islamic concept. > > > > > > > > > > It is not just Islamic and they did not originate it.. > > > > > > > > > well .. > > > > > > > Again, true. And Muslims would be happy to agree with that. > You > > > have > > > > > > > to go back to Abraham and, in truth, Noah and Adam, before all. > > > It's > > > > > > > a Judeo/Christian/Islamic concept, because it is described that > way > > > in > > > > > > > those scriptures revealed by "The God of Abraham". > > > > > > > > from what i have read of the koran they will not like my > assessment > > > .. > > > > > > there is to much man in it people trying to be important.. and > expand > > > > > what > > > > > > is said originally > > > > > > > > > > > If string theory is true, it allows for > > > > > > > > > us, as physical bodies, to exist throughout these other non > > > > > space-time > > > > > > > > > dimensions and move through them as we move through those > we > > > sense. > > > > > > > > > So, you're not far off there, either, although I wouldn't > say > > > that > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > are IN heaven, just that you pass through it (and hell) > while > > > you > > > > > > > > > exist here, although at a level which is completely > > > undetectable. > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > bond of which you speak, I refer to as "that we are an > > > extension of > > > > > > > > > the energy that is" and that that energy is God's, as there > is > > > > > nothing > > > > > > > > > else. As for your last statement, how can you hide from > that > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > omnipresent and how can you hide your knowledge from God > when > > > it > > > > > isn't > > > > > > > > > your knowledge, but His, that you have? The fact that the > > > > > space-time > > > > > > > > > continum contains a permanent record of all that we have > done > > > is a > > > > > > > > > clear enough record to refer to and it will last for all > > > time...by > > > > > > > > > definition. > > > > > > > > > > > Pat To me the only important thing is God and my > relationship > > > with > > > > > him > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > how to enhance it.. It is enough for me, my experience is > that > > > many > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > try to explain what they can not explain the result is a mess > of > > > > > > > confusing > > > > > > > > beliefs I think that is because they do not know what they > are > > > > > talking > > > > > > > > about. For me I am in love with my God as I understand him > and > > > am > > > > > > > willing > > > > > > > > to share what I know. > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > Sounds fair enough to me. I do know that I can ramble on about > the > > > > > > > finer details, but the general concepts you hold I can back up > with > > > my > > > > > > > physics. > > > > > > > > > True but at least it is interesting reading.. > > > > > > > > Over the years He (non gender) has show me wonders beyond > what I > > > > > could > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > imagine. It is hard to express sometimes what has happened.. > I > > > know > > > > > God > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > real,, and I know everyone else has exactly the same > connection.. > > > > > there > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > a lot to be said.. but I really have few questions,, the > > > problem > > > > > with > > > > > > > me > > > > > > > > is if I ask the answers tend to come.. the next question > is do > > > I > > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > want the answer. > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > I can, so easily, relate to that. I, too, get answers, > although I > > > ask > > > > > > > about the finer details. And the answers, as you imply, can be > > > > > > > heavy. I suspect you do want the questions, as there is no > other > > > > > > > reason to ask. > > > > > > > > I follow what you have to say and I know you can relate. > > > > > > > > > I also approve of your clarification that 'He' is a > > > > > > > non-gender-specific word. > > > > > > > > He is a common expression with out gender it allows for > > > simplification > > > > > > > > Whoa Pat > > > > > > > > > That One is beyond gender, which is why He > > > > > > > can't have children. Although all creatures are, in a > metaphorical > > > > > > > sense, His children, none are, in reality, because they do not > grow > > > up > > > > > > > to be omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. If any did, > there'd > > > be > > > > > > > chaos, as how can you have two omnipotent entities? Logic > doesn't > > > > > > > allow for it. > > > > > > > > With your statement you just separated God from the rest of the > > > > > universe! > > > > > > > Would you care to explain how I separated God from the universe? > What > > > > > part of my statement suggest that to you? It is not a belief of > mine > > > > > that God is separate from the universe, so, if I said something > that > > > > > you thought implied that, it was unintentional. In fact, I > describe > > > > > all parts of the universe as 'extensions' OF God, thereby joining > > > > > every aspect of it to Him. If it was the phrase "all creatures > > > > > are...His children", it was pure metaphor, in that, they are > creations > > > > > of His. The method of their creation, though, is through extension > of > > > > > His substance/essence, what I and science call 'energy', and there > is > > > > > no dismemberment of Deity involved. In fact, you can't be cut off > > > > > either, as that would degrade the quality of omnipresence, which > > > > > cannot be done if omnipresence is to be maintained. > > > > > > > > To me that is one of greatest mistakes made by the religions of > the > > > > > world. > > > > > > I do not want to separate God as I understand him from from his > > > universe > > > > > ,, > > > > > > I only want to be part of it although it is only the tinest > part.. > > > as > > > > > long > > > > > > as I am part that. That is my dream > > > > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > ( > > > > > > ) > > > > > > I_D Allan- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups > > > > > ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > > > . > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > > > > ( > > > > ) > > > > I_D Allan- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > . > > > > ... > > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. > > -- ( ) I_D Allan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
