I do not believe that a god exists. I've said this many times. I am fully willing to evaluate evidence to the contrary, however. You wouldn't believe the tripe I've sifted through because someone claimed that it provided proof or evidence. You want a headache? Go to the abomination laughingly called a creation "museum." Listen to Ken Ham describe "bible coloured glasses" (they are apparently necessary to believe in or understand the bible). Read a paper by Michael Behe if you really want to commit a facepalm due to corrupted intellect.
The manner that I came to this is not some ill informed or irrational leap. Long years of research and study have shown nearly every example and circumstance described in holy books to be false. Concepts that are inconsistent with religion as it has been promoted and or provided abound. Mayn't there be a god concept that includes these? Yes. If I invent such a concept, does that make it true? No. The models of religion that exist make statements. When these statements are disproven, you simply want people to believe in that which is left over? If historical fact and science prove that the moon is not made of cheese, but your book claims that it is and that god made it so, would you REALLY keep the god concept when that which is attributed to him is false? Far too many people hold on to those disproven ideas because of their irrational need to believe it. For a basic christian example: firmament. I have never gone diving in deep water. I do have a belief that it is relatively safe with proper equipment and even safer with training. I also believe that "the bends" results from nitrogen in your body reacting to ascending too quickly, but I've never experienced them. I do not believe that Hercules really dove down 200 feet to wrestle a shark. Yes, you could call that a strong belief. Not only is there no evidence that Hercules ever existed or that he is the progeny of a deity, there IS proof that diving down 200 ft is impossible without gear. This casts serious doubt on both the story and the character. Reading on, one can find that nearly every story containing Hercules involves impossible or disproven actions. At some point, even the most ardent believer must admit that each story dimishes the likelyhood of the Hercules myth. You have taken that step. FAR too many people haven't, and continue committing atrocities or trying to force their irrationality on others. On Apr 8, 8:54 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > Yeah I guess this is what you would say. > > Am I asking you to prove a negative for me though? > > It is clear that you have a distinct belife that God does not exist. > You do not fall into the catergory of 'soft' atheist, you have a real > and distinct belife on the subject. > > All I ask then is for you to show me how you come to such a belife. I > suspect you'll not be able to, I suspect then that your belife is > every bit as irrational as my belife. Just admit it man, we are all > prone to such belifes. > > Ahh but I also supect you will not admit it, nor will you agree with > me. > > Try this one on for size Fidds. > > I Lee Douglas readily admit to holding an unsubstanciated belife in a > creative diety which I call God, I further belive that such an entity > is the only one in existance and it is also imminante throughout the > creation. I realise that holding such a belife is irrational, in that > there is no rational proof, evidance nor basis for it, yet I realise > this and it brings me no pain nor troubles. > > That's easy innit. > > To your elves then. > > It is good that you would carry on sugesting ways to view or catch > these elves in order to proove their existance or not, but deep deep > down, you belive that no such creatures exist don't you. Why would > you belive that when no evidance for or against has been proven, say > isn't that a leap of faith? > > I get the differance between what has been termed 'Strong' and 'Weak' > atheists, and really you are strong my freind(all of your posts scream > it is so), and so as guilty as me as irrational belife. > > Fess up mate, come on now, show some intelectual honesty. > > On 8 Apr, 15:48, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > No it doesn't. Do not fall into fallacy of telling others to prove a > > negative. At every point that a religion tells it's followers a > > specific way in which some god interacts with the world, it is proven > > to either be false or inseparable from a perfectly natural > > occurrence... which leads to it's own problems. When there is evidence > > that can be measured or weighed, I reserve the right to change my > > mind. Until then, and as always, those with a positive assertion need > > to accept the self imposed burden of proof. Considering that, > > especially with the bible, concepts repeatedly and demonstrably proven > > wrong are still held dear and anyone challenging them is told to prove > > otherwise. Evolution and the lack of a global flood are two of the > > most proven concepts in the history of the world, and yet it never > > matters to a devout whether or not there is evidence, because the > > evidence isn't "divinely inspired"... > > As with KC on gravity, common and intellectually lacking > > determinations are all too commonly trotted out. One is here with this > > "you must hate god!" The other is there with "but they/we aren't all > > like that!" > > > Finally, every time you make an assertion like "elves creep into my > > house every night, tearing apart my shoes and rebuilding them before I > > wake," my first response would be to wake earlier and catch them at > > it. > > "But they read dreams and know when i will wake," you may proclaim. > > Mark the placement and direction then. > > "But they always put them back EXACTLY as they were." > > Rip one of the shoes, surely such expert craftsmen wouldn't want to be > > associated with a ripped shoe. > > "No, they even put scuff marks back on the material!" > > At this point I would feel certain enough to declare a lack of elves, > > yet I would not stop thinking of methods to catch them. Judging by > > your remark, you would simply tell me to prove that they don't do > > this, all the while making excuses for why they, and their labours, > > cannot be detected. > > > On Apr 8, 7:22 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hehheh here is the thing though Fidds. > > > > Unless you can show me proof that there is no God then your 'strong' > > > stance is every bit a 'ridiculous concept' as my belife in a creative > > > God, is it not? > > > > You accuse Vam here of not being able to stand outside of his > > > perspective, does this mean that you are able to pull such a trick? I > > > only ask as your typical vitriotic posts seem to suggest that you > > > also are not capable of such a feat. > > > > On 8 Apr, 15:11, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > You have placed me in grand company indeed. Every atheist that wants > > > > the end of this ridiculous concept of god, or has been vocal about > > > > gods non-existence, is accused of being angry at god. This is the > > > > default response of a theist who cannot stand outside their own > > > > perspective or accept that they are, in all likelihood, wrong. > > > > > On Apr 7, 11:34 pm, vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Indeed, that is my own perception too. Which leaves the image of a > > > > > person who is inconsistent enough to say God does not exist and that > > > > > God is evil ! > > > > > > On Apr 8, 12:49 am, Matthijs <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Fiddler, > > > > > > > I first want to say that you are savoir faire at formulating your > > > > > > opinion, and think they challenge to think about. Secondly I do not > > > > > > understand why you make a personal attack by saying someone is > > > > > > ridicules. For example: Lee your ideas about Evil are stupid because > > > > > > Evil is only a concept. (words are always concepts there ain't no > > > > > > words that fully describe their meaning) Why is Lee his idea about > > > > > > Evil stupid? > > > > > > 3 I get the feeling that you are angry at God because God ain't > > > > > > there, > > > > > > and that this is the result because your beliefs about God have hurt > > > > > > you in the past. (not believing in God is something else than being > > > > > > angry as a result of denial) What happened? > > > > > > > I have pointed this out because I think it is hurts people to > > > > > > personal > > > > > > attack their ideas and it is better to refute ideas/concepts if you > > > > > > want to philosophise. (I think this also counts for more people) > > > > > > > Greets, > > > > > > Matthijs > > > > > > > On Mar 28, 1:20 am, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I've been terribly busy lately. > > > > > > > > An interesting moment happened lately. A woman that I ran > > > > > > > logistics on > > > > > > > for her escape from Palestine insisted on thanking me... I hope > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > never happens again... > > > > > > > She didn't speak English and her translator ( provided by the > > > > > > > sponsor > > > > > > > I'd arranged here as well as get her trunk space out of > > > > > > > palestine) was > > > > > > > almost fawning... ecckkk > > > > > > > I much prefer my charity to be unknown to it's recipients... > > > > > > > She escaped islam in Palestine and I'm very glad to help. Rather > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > be slaughtered for "dishonouring" her daddy by being raped by her > > > > > > > daddy and her brothers (yes that still happens daily in islamic > > > > > > > countries) she chose to leave and I helped organise her escape. > > > > > > > Two > > > > > > > people I knew were killed in the operation, one because he was an > > > > > > > apostate and the other for being with him. Yes, both are a crime > > > > > > > punishable by death according to islam. > > > > > > > > I asked whether or not she would remain true to life and love,c > > > > > > > forgoing the cult of murder and death that I helped her escape. > > > > > > > She > > > > > > > attempted to adjust a head covering that no longer hid her > > > > > > > beautiful > > > > > > > hair. Looking sheepish, she responded that : "No matter how I may > > > > > > > miss > > > > > > > what I had [family], I can actually look myself in the mirror > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > bruises." > > > > > > > > This may seem silly to some of you, but please -just once in a > > > > > > > while- > > > > > > > put yourself in the place of these women that enjoy 'around the > > > > > > > clock' > > > > > > > physical, emotional, and mental abuse. No woman deserves islam. > > > > > > > > To lee: > > > > > > > I find such a fault in your idea that evil need exist for free > > > > > > > choice > > > > > > > to exist... > > > > > > > > So, according to you, A man need be able to rape in order to > > > > > > > choose > > > > > > > love? > > > > > > > > Your god (i draw this from your comments) HAD to create evil in > > > > > > > order > > > > > > > to give us free will. > > > > > > > > That's a really sick and disgusting concept. > > > > > > > > Your god: " here people! Eat this delicious and poisonously deadly > > > > > > > chocolate cake!... or ... you know... you could have this little > > > > > > > tasteless wafer of good...." > > > > > > > > Any other loving parent: "here's an apple, an orange, a cookie, or > > > > > > > leftovers... johnnie! get away from the poisoned rat-trap!" > > > > > > > > Your concept is based on a ridiculous idea that there is only > > > > > > > good vs. > > > > > > > evil, and that any choice must be between the two. If your god > > > > > > > existed, he could have given us such a variety of choice and > > > > > > > experience that it would boggle a human mind... without "evil" > > > > > > > entering the equation. Evil is a human concept and so is the > > > > > > > silly god- > > > > > > > myth. We have the capacity for being nice and for not being nice. > > > > > > > No > > > > > > > god needed. > > > > > > > > My children have the free will to choose between oranges and > > > > > > > apples > > > > > > > every single day, that is free choice. It is only a sick little > > > > > > > Canaanite separatist movement's god from around 300 b.c.e. that > > > > > > > says > > > > > > > each child must choose between eternal damnation and slavery to > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > daddy.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
