On 28 Apr, 13:13, vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > What is consciousness ? Is it ' something ?' If yes, what ? Please use > words signifying the something(s), so that it can understood, perhaps > measured. >
I have described it as a "field of consciousness". In my physical model, our 'consciousness' is a 2-dimensional slice of a greater 3-D field of energy. That 3-D field, as all of our 2-D slices of it, are contained in 3 of the 6 Calabi-Yau space dimensions. Whilst I would go so far as to say it is a field of energy, it is a form of energy that is unlike forms that exist in our 4-D space-time. Also, our body, via the central nervous system, sets up an interface TO our 2-D slice of consciousness. When we detect changes in our brain (by functional MRI, e.g.), what we are detecting is the interface TO consciousness and not consciousness itself, per se. The trouble with measuring consciousness, as I've described it, is that one's measuring tool must be of a similar type of energy, i.e., some tool of consciousness. I say that because we use physical, 4-D tools to measure physical, 4-D objects; therefore, by analogy, in order to measure consciousness, we need to have a tool that is comprised of similar 'stuff' and a tool that exists in the same spatial area, i.e., "consciousness space", that 3-D area of the Calabi-Yau space where consciousness exists, in order to use the tool. And that, I'm afraid, is quite tricky. The best available tools of consciousness that we have are things like sympathy and empathy, which are employed by our consciousness and applied to the consciousness of another. However, unlike a hammer, which can be used in the same fashion by any user of said hammer, our 'tools of consciousness' seem to be subjective and, as far as I know, there are no objective tools of consciousness available. The closest we might be able to come is under a kind of 'group meditation' situation where several minds have formed links together and, due to the admixture of several individuals, the whole may achieve a greater chance at being objective than any one individual. Hope that helps explain it a bit more!! > On Apr 28, 4:43 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 28 Apr, 11:55, RP <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > God is not made of any substance or energy, rather everything emanates > > > from him. He is above all attributes and the source of all. > > > I would completely refute that. To date, we have discovered nothing > > that exists that is not comprised of energy. It is energy that > > exists. If you can find something that is NOT energy, then, please, > > do so and take the Nobel Prize in Physics. If God does not consist of > > 'something', then He must consist of 'nothing' and nothing can EVER > > come from nothing. Rather, God must consist of some substance and, > > the only underlying substance we have ever discovered is energy, > > albeit in countless 'forms'. Nothin could emanate from nothing. So > > that statement, too, I refute. Rather, everything emantates from (or, > > as I would term it, everything is an extension of) God. He has many > > attributes, 99 according to Islam. I can use just three to derive the > > rest from. If He is completely beyond attributes, He can do nothing. > > Therefore, if you state that He has no attributes, then He is NOT > > omnipotent, as omnipotence is an attribute. Without omnipotenece, He > > is impotent. And, even Impotence would be an attribute. But it would > > be no attribute of an effective deity. He cannot be the source of all > > if He is, in fact, nothing (made of any substance or energy), as you > > suggest. Do try to re-think this one. I would bet every soul on my > > statement that God is an entity of energy (and that is a very heavy > > bet, indeed). Are you that sure of your statements, as stated, above? > > > > On Apr 27, 4:50 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 26 Apr, 22:48, Manfraco Frank Elder <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Hi everybody! > > > > > This thread for me is just great, as it seems to describe God in a way > > > > > that even the atheist may accept and it is more or less just as I see > > > > > God. Just to say my own personal views I am going to describe my God > > > > > for you thus: > > > > > God may well be the positive-life-energy that exists in the whole > > > > > universe; therefore, God is life and life is God himself and one > > > > > cannot exist without the other. We should believe in God, because if > > > > > God is not there, there is no life and we are all dead. What do you > > > > > think? Do you think I maybe right about it? > > > > > My regards to everyone > > > > > Manfraco > > > > > Well, it's a bit more complicated than that. If we equate energy (be > > > > that positive or negative or matter/antimatter) with 'the substance of > > > > God', that is, the 'stuff' that God is made of, then everything that > > > > exists is made of that God-originating substance. That is my view on > > > > it. If we deny that energy exists, we're idiots, because it does. > > > > The question is: Is that energy somehow joined and, if so, how and > > > > where? These are the bases for my theory and I show how and where the > > > > energy is joined. Once that energy is 'unified' or, more precisely, > > > > shown to be undivided, then we can discuss that energy as a 'whole'. > > > > And that 'whole' is everywhere energy is, throughout all of space- > > > > time, therefore omnipresent. That energy is, because it is joined > > > > (or, rather, never divided in the first place!), only one entity made > > > > of energy. That entity is the only actor in the system and is, > > > > therefore, omnipotent. Irrespective of the exact mechanisms involved > > > > in consciousness, if there is only one, indivisible actor in the > > > > system, then ALL consciousness is retained by that entity, therefore, > > > > that entity is omniscient. Thus, the entity is omnipresent, > > > > omnipotent and omniscient, fulfilling the three basic requirements for > > > > deity. That's how I get from describing a particular configuration of > > > > energy (which could be viewed in an atheistic fashion) yet it leads > > > > one to a deistic paradigm, once one has realised that 'the > > > > configuration that energy has taken' actually defines itself AS God by > > > > virtue of it maintaining the three required attributes of deity. > > > > > > On Apr 26, 9:44 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On 25 Apr, 16:38, [email protected] wrote: > > > > > > > > God may or may not be conscious. Some of us are conscious and we > > > > > > > would like to think that someone consciously designed us rather > > > > > > > than to imagine we may be designed by convergence not by > > > > > > > conscious creation. If however, However if indeed God is > > > > > > > conscious - as some of us are conscious - then we are able to > > > > > > > make choices. The choices we cannot avoid making are those > > > > > > > choices that have to do with the necessity of solving problems of > > > > > > > daily living. The best choices are those that are derived from > > > > > > > making informed decisions. Informed decisions are derived from > > > > > > > applying critical thinking which also include contributions of > > > > > > > the heart, and soul. > > > > > > > A God that is not conscious could not be omniscient. A God that is > > > > > > omniscient is not conscious in the same way that we are, as we are > > > > > > not > > > > > > omniscient. God cannot tire, as He is Omnipotent, therefore, He > > > > > > requires no rest, again, unlike our form of consciousness that > > > > > > requires rest. Whilst there are similarities, there are vast > > > > > > differences. Likeness is not equality, therefore, when it is said > > > > > > we > > > > > > are created in His likeness, do not expect that our existence is, in > > > > > > any way, equal to His. Rather, our existence is 'like' His in > > > > > > certain > > > > > > respects, but completely unlike in others. A careful consideration > > > > > > of > > > > > > the three qualities of omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence > > > > > > (both > > > > > > transcendant and immanent) are required to make a proper analysis. > > > > > > The choices that we cannot avoid making are those that are events > > > > > > that > > > > > > are extant in the space-time continuum, all others simply will nor > > > > > > occur and you will never experience them. If you experience > > > > > > something, then you know that it was always a part of the continuum > > > > > > and you know (albeit after the fact!!) that it was necessary. > > > > > > > > The capability and the ability to make informed decisions also > > > > > > > implies the right and I think the responsibility of every person > > > > > > > to dissent from those opinions which are deemed ill informed. > > > > > > > This means that whatever we call God is not the final authority > > > > > > > with respect to what is ultimately considered to be in each > > > > > > > persons best interest. > > > > > > > Rather, God is the final authority irrespective of our views OF said > > > > > > deity, by the necessity of the defining quality of omnipotence. > > > > > > Otherwise, you must assume that you have some authority that God > > > > > > does > > > > > > not and THAT is incompatible with omnipotence. > > > > > > > > The long winded point I am trying to make is that with respect to > > > > > > > whatever data is singled out - i.e. God, unity - consciousness - > > > > > > > each person brings something of himself (consciously or > > > > > > > unconsciously) in interpreting what those concepts means to him > > > > > > > or her. Thus each person ultimately is his own final authority. > > > > > > > Thank God. > > > > > > > Nicely put, yet you will answer to an omnipotent entity--if, of > > > > > > course, said entity exists. But, its existence is NOT dependent > > > > > > upon > > > > > > our views, as our data is greatly lacking and His, of course, due to > > > > > > His omniscience, is full and complete down to the quantum state of > > > > > > the > > > > > > entire continuum. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: pol.science kid <[email protected]> > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > Sent: Sun, Apr 25, 2010 9:37 am > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Mind's Eye] Re: God and I > > > > > > > > but they cannot survive in isolation can they... > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 9:12 AM, RP <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Energy leads to action, God to consciousness. One is effort, the > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > is knowledge. Body without consciousness is mud, Life without > > > > > > > spirit > > > > > > > is incomprehensible. > > > > > > > > On Apr 24, 8:15 am, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > God is neither he nor she..pure energy thats all..and that is > > > > > > > > wat > > > > > > > > flows through every one of us..and will flow after our time is > > > > > > > > done..we are it.. it is us... > > > > > > > > > On Apr 21, 9:23 am, RP <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > God is pure consciousness, formless, unborn, eternal, > > > > > > > > > indestructible > > > > > > > > > and the source, the spirit and the end of all. We are > > > > > > > > > conscious, have > > > > > > > > > a form, are born, live and die. Our only solace is that we > > > > > > > > > arise from > > > > > > > > > him, are upheld by him and go back to him. He is the Truth > > > > > > > > > and we are > > > > > > > > > just his reflections and vanish when the vessel dies. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > > > > > > > > Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > > > > > > [email protected]. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > > > > [email protected]. > > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group > > > > > > > > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > > > > > > > Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > > > [email protected]. > > > > > > > > For more options, visit > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
