It may be that mankind invented gods to account for their progress in civilizing themselves and distinguishing themselves from animals or savages - rig
We should take into account that many civilizations including our own expend a great deal of energy integrating themselves with the animal kingdom. That would be of course the use of feathered headdress, the donning of animal pelts, the use of animal insignia, eagle emblems, lucky rabbits foot (I never go that one because the rabbit had four but it didn't do him any good, lol) etc etc. Our fashions, automobiles and "ornaments" reflect that of animals. So I think to the contrary we are somehow afraid of being apart from the animal kingdom, some of which exhibit extraordinary levels of intelligence. I mean I'm pure dog and still here typing on the Internet; it's really tough with two paws believe me. lol I think the reality of death has forced many in mankind to try to make sense of a limited earthly existence. -rig I do agree, the death aspect does raise many questions but when looking at the whole of it we can see that it is all just part of the universe, that is to say that even mountains wear away and many other inanimate objects transform into other energies and elements eg; water evaporates, ice melts, flesh rots. To think that this is all part of a supreme being's plan is imaginary at best. If you or I were to create a world, would it be as it is today? We think not at all because there are way too many flaws it attribute it to a supreme creator. My fish tank works better than this planet. It could be argued that pride spurs one to desire an extension to the brief time on earth but one could say the same of those who create, build and rule, couldn't one? -rig Actually it could be argued against pride because dominance, an innate sense in our being, seems to be the predominant aspect of humanity. We dominate our environment, we dominate other forms/elements of existence, we dominate our own species. This is more pertinent to the whole. I would naturally want to dominate you just on the basis of male female orientation, that would be natural of course and not by force. Those that create, build and rule are rightfully the owners of what they create, build and rule, no? Then there is the need for an orderly society usually accomplished through morals and ethics but often by force and how to disseminate them through the population which gave rise to ritual and rote. ...........rig Much to be explored in this triad of ideas. An orderly society cannot be accomplished buy dictate of morals and ethics; that has been tried and true as failure. Force has been the perceived panacea for ages and as much as we can see it is useless; military rule eventually fails which is evidenced by the numerous failures of empirical rule. Of course having invisible gods on ones side added to the power and respectability of rulers......rig Ahhh! Now we are getting at the crux of the matter, invisible, make believe, fiction "gods" having power over those less astute to deny the notion of such notions. This is the whole point of the thread, the facade of religious belief, ie; religious belief is simply that, a belief in anything without plausibility, viability or empirical evidence. Prayer? Well my opinion is there are as many prayers unanswered as there are prayers answered and that it due to the fact that the complexities in life may turn out in your favor or they may turn out against your favor. Prayer aside from self pacification is useless. A car crashes and four people die, the religious people all clamor together in an attempt to claim the survivors the result of a miracle; but what about the rest? The survivor survived because of intricate factors not because of some prayer or miracle. To believe in prayer essentially giving testimony to the existence of a god or supreme being that has influence upon the happenings on earth. Of course we all know and understand that any supreme being or god that would allow the suffering, pain, and atrocity taking place on earth to continue must be a sadistic being. To be continued................... On Sep 20, 7:40 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > Where do you want Him to be? :-) > > It may be that mankind invented gods to account for their progress in > civilizing themselves and distinguishing themselves from animals or > savages but most of all I think the reality of death has forced many > in mankind to try to make sense of a limited earthly existence. It > could be argued that pride spurs one to desire an extension to the > brief time on earth but one could say the same of those who create, > build and rule, couldn't one? Then there is the need for an orderly > society ususally accomplished through morals and ethics but often by > force and how to disemminate them through the population which gave > rise to ritual and rote. Of course having invisible gods on ones side > added to the power and respectibility of rulers but don't modern > "isms" do the very same thing? > > Perhaps God/gods are myth and fantasy- I really don't know- except > that prayer is a gift in good times and bad for I do think there are > too many incidents and challenges in life where reason cannot provide > an answer or solution and humans simply have to "give it up/over" to a > force/wish beyond themselves. > > On Sep 20, 7:11 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Where is God? > > > On Sep 20, 5:57 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > One would hope so, my friend. That's how I have modified my > > > translation of "in God's image". > > > > On 20 Sep., 12:04, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > All true, except I guess that each human knows what humanity is. > > > > > On 19 Sep, 01:46, Alan Wostenberg <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On Sep 14, 3:38 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote:> Whilst it is true that one man may not nesscarily know what > > > > > is good > > > > > > for another man, this is easy to put right by asking 'what can I do > > > > > > for you?' > > > > > > Only if the recipient knows what man is. If the hungry man is ignorant > > > > > of physiology, he may well say "please give me a nice thick steak and > > > > > a glass of wine". And he's unable to digest the food. One who does not > > > > > know what a man is cannot do good for his neighbor, except by > > > > > accident. > > > > > > > On 13 Sep, 18:39, Alan Wostenberg <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, you "can have a feeling of responsibility towards society and > > > > > > > consider it your duty towards it and do what is good for you and > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > others". But what have feelings to do with doing good? > > > > > > > > A man comes upon a starving man, knowing little about human > > > > > > > nature, > > > > > > > offers him a good thick steak and a glass of wine. But the > > > > > > > starving > > > > > > > man cannot digest the food. The first man had a sincere "feeling > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > responsibility", and really wanted to "do what is good for the > > > > > > > other", > > > > > > > but utterly botched it, because he is ignorant of what is really > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > for the other man. > > > > > > > > No doubt those with a "humanitarian mindset" mean well, and act in > > > > > > > accord with what they believe is good for fellow humans, just > > > > > > > like the > > > > > > > Jihadist, or the mercy killer who euthanizes the sick patient, or > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > abortionist, or Hitler. Everybody does what he /believes/ to be > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > for his fellow man. But only those who /know/ what is good for > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > neighbor can consistently deliver. > > > > > > > > On the Christian view, if we do not know Christ, we do not know > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > man is, so it is quite impossible to do good for man, except by > > > > > > > accident. > > > > > > > > On Sep 13, 10:30 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > A person can have a humanitarian mindset regardless of > > > > > > > > religion. You don't > > > > > > > > have to believe in God to be good , you can have a feeling of > > > > > > > > responsibility > > > > > > > > towards society and consider it your duty towards it and do > > > > > > > > what is good > > > > > > > > for you and the others. Patriots need not be religious , yet > > > > > > > > they feel a > > > > > > > > great responsibility towards their country. There are so many > > > > > > > > motives for a > > > > > > > > man to do good to others irrespective of religion. On the > > > > > > > > other hand people > > > > > > > > are known to indulge in vice and ask God's forgiveness later. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Alan Wostenberg > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sure, "helping is primal". But the Jihadist, having a > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > theology than the Christian, believes he is helping you by > > > > > > > > > converting > > > > > > > > > you to Islam by the sword. Not so the Christian, for whom > > > > > > > > > religion is > > > > > > > > > the "The voluntary subjection of oneself to God". > > > > > > > > > > The island of atheists? Sure, they'd "help others" for some > > > > > > > > > definition > > > > > > > > > of "help" and "others". I know something about the Christian > > > > > > > > > command > > > > > > > > > to love my neighbor but don't know the official atheist dogma > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > helping others. If one acted like there were no God why > > > > > > > > > would he > > > > > > > > > think he has any duty to help others? > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 12, 8:28 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > AW; > > > > > > > > > > Yes there is............. > > > > > > > > > > I'll refer you to rigsy's sept. 6 10:15 am post as to my > > > > > > > > > > "theistic > > > > > > > > > > religiosity" comment. > > > > > > > > > > > Also, people use therapy and AA like a religion- in fact, > > > > > > > > > > they "use" a > > > > > > > > > > lot of things in lieu of religion. What about jingoism? > > > > > > > > > > <<<rigsy > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think no one would help anyone else on an island of > > > > > > > > > > atheists > > > > > > > > > > because they didn't have a religion to tell them to do so? > > > > > > > > > > Helping > > > > > > > > > > is primal and innate as nurturing; religion and faith is > > > > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > > > > construct and not necessity.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -
