Sure Gabs. Your making me wonder if an absolute can even be subjective; I certainly contend that it is. We know that the existence of an electron is an absolute and if it is in motion that motion itself is an absolute but according to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle neither the electrons position or it's motion can be simultaneously determined which, in my view, creates an uncertainty that is subjective. I'm using the quantum mechanics dilemma raised by Heisenberg as a means of hypothesizing that absolutes in other areas may fall under that principle. Because life is so "of the moment or instance" oriented it is impossible to really establish a determination as an absolute which then renders the determination as subjective. We could drag ourselves into the space-time continuum if need be but I think the point is clear, well at least to me. As the momentum of our life is in motion in the STC we cannot make a determination of an instance (position in life) which has moved on. Maybe if you get a bit more wordy we can go on with this or maybe this will lure Pat out from under his rock lol. I've goaded you into more than one paragraph before; you can do it! ;-)
On Sep 23, 4:51 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > Hell, no! What a small world this would be! The universe is expanding! > > On 23 Sep., 00:37, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > It is all about interpretive reference no? The subjective knowledge > > of a consistent absolute? > > > On Sep 22, 4:42 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Haha. That would have been the "for my betterment's sake" variant you > > > are asking for. I thought "Minds Eye" was a place where the effects of > > > collaborative word exchanges could somehow be made visible. For the > > > better. I had forgotten the "for the worse" variant. That's why I was > > > asking. > > > > On 22 Sep., 19:23, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I'd like it more if I knew what you were talking about. > > > > Can you elaborate more on your idea? Please! > > > > Thank You! > > > > > On Sep 22, 10:52 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > How do you like: for betterment's sake? > > > > > > On 21 Sep., 12:30, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > You should get some rest Ash, sleep well. I can assure you the > > > > > > nature > > > > > > and content of this thread and posts are not corollary to your > > > > > > thoughts. The subject matter has been tossed, ping ponged and has > > > > > > made numerous spherical revolutions around the ME globe over the > > > > > > past > > > > > > several years. It is more likely that it is coincidental; for what > > > > > > purpose or intent would it server otherwise? > > > > > > > On Sep 21, 2:43 am, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Just a quick reprieve for me here. Slip, you have impeccable > > > > > > > timing, I > > > > > > > was reading up on OTO a few nights ago. This sort of thing > > > > > > > happens a lot > > > > > > > here, perhaps there is some higher 'power' in effect? It usually > > > > > > > takes > > > > > > > about a week for people to begin spontaneously mentioning things > > > > > > > on my > > > > > > > mind. :p > > > > > > > > Mayhaps had meant OTOH (on the other hand), well apply that > > > > > > > retroactively to this post too. I'll leave you fine gents to your > > > > > > > devices, and I, to sleep... > > > > > > > > On 9/18/2010 9:51 PM, Slip Disc wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well I think we both reached the same conclusion in previous > > > > > > > > times. > > > > > > > > John chapter 6 is quite the story but I'd be hard pressed to > > > > > > > > believe > > > > > > > > that these events actually took place beyond the metaphor and > > > > > > > > allegory > > > > > > > > that is consistent with biblical stories. For some strange > > > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > people have a need to believe things that are beyond our mundane > > > > > > > > existence. But the real problem for me it that these things > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > never existed beyond the age of antiquity. We have nothing > > > > > > > > today to > > > > > > > > indicate validity of these events, therefore it is laid in the > > > > > > > > matter > > > > > > > > of choice category of religious belief. I have to say, and not > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > offend, but these beliefs are no different from the beliefs of > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > primitive and nomadic peoples. If at any given time you told > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > people their carved out of rock god was bullshit they would cut > > > > > > > > off > > > > > > > > your head and feed you body to the dogs. You my friend are of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same kind, dug in deep with a belief based on the ancients. > > > > > > > > What did > > > > > > > > those people really know? What did they actually see? Were > > > > > > > > there no > > > > > > > > such things as scams back then? > > > > > > > > You still believe in a man god, something that was created out > > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > imaginations of humanity. Books are a product of the human > > > > > > > > mind, a > > > > > > > > creation out of the utilization of natural resource, paper and > > > > > > > > pen. > > > > > > > > It might be half believable if it weren't for the fact that > > > > > > > > millions > > > > > > > > of other people in the world have their own man god stories. > > > > > > > > Have you > > > > > > > > talked to a Hassidic Jew lately, a Muslim, a Tibetan, Buddhist > > > > > > > > or any > > > > > > > > of the other non-catholic or christian believers? > > > > > > > > > OTO? > > > > > > > > Is that Ordo Templi Orientis? > > > > > > > > > On Sep 18, 8:01 pm, Alan Wostenberg<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Sep 13, 7:25 pm, Slip Disc<[email protected]> wrote:> You > > > > > > > >> actually believe all those stories? > > > > > > > > >> Of course I believe John Chapter 6. And of course you do not! > > > > > > > >> And so > > > > > > > >> we necessarily have /different/ ideas of the nature of man > > > > > > > >> and what > > > > > > > >> is really good for man. > > > > > > > > >> One who believes man is created in the image by God, laid low > > > > > > > >> by sin, > > > > > > > >> in need of a Savor, will take a certain definite view on what > > > > > > > >> is good > > > > > > > >> for man. OTO one who believes man is a swarm of particles has > > > > > > > >> a > > > > > > > >> different view of the matter. > > > > > > > > >>> It is a book alan, paper and pen, stories, allegory and > > > > > > > >>> metaphor. > > > > > > > >>> Quoting scripture is merely quoting a storyline. The bible > > > > > > > >>> is full to > > > > > > > >>> the brim with contradiction and conflict. The old testament > > > > > > > >>> is full > > > > > > > >>> of atrocity and vengeance, bloodshed, rape and murder by the > > > > > > > >>> command, > > > > > > > >>> jurisdiction or under the auspices of the loving god. Then > > > > > > > >>> there were > > > > > > > >>> 400 years without a word, the Romans were brutal and so was > > > > > > > >>> needed a > > > > > > > >>> savior, and so one was born but who would believe it if it > > > > > > > >>> were born > > > > > > > >>> like everyone else so only a virgin birth would do. And so > > > > > > > >>> the god > > > > > > > >>> father in a demonstration of his love for humanity has his > > > > > > > >>> 'only' son > > > > > > > >>> brutally tortured and killed. Wow, oh I forgot, that was > > > > > > > >>> because of > > > > > > > >>> our sins, the sins we were born with. And now people have to > > > > > > > >>> give up > > > > > > > >>> 10% of their earnings to the people who keep these stories > > > > > > > >>> alive or > > > > > > > >>> else fire and brimstone. Great story! > > > > > > > >>> On Sep 13, 4:55 pm, Alan Wostenberg<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > >>>> "By what means did the christian faith corner the market on > > > > > > > >>>> knowing > > > > > > > >>>> what > > > > > > > >>>> is good for man?". By Christ the Lord, who said some pretty > > > > > > > >>>> startling > > > > > > > >>>> things on the topic, such as "I am the way and the truth and > > > > > > > >>>> the life. > > > > > > > >>>> No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 8:6). > > > > > > > >>>> And of course in John Chapter 6 v. 48, we learn from the > > > > > > > >>>> Inventor of > > > > > > > >>>> food about Real Food: > > > > > > > >>>> "I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the > > > > > > > >>>> desert, > > > > > > > >>>> but they died;this is the bread that comes down from heaven > > > > > > > >>>> so that > > > > > > > >>>> one may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that came > > > > > > > >>>> down from > > > > > > > >>>> heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the > > > > > > > >>>> bread that > > > > > > > >>>> I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." > > > > > > > >>>> The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this > > > > > > > >>>> man give us > > > > > > > >>>> (his) flesh to eat?" Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say > > > > > > > >>>> to you, > > > > > > > >>>> unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his > > > > > > > >>>> blood, you do > > > > > > > >>>> not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks > > > > > > > >>>> my blood > > > > > > > >>>> has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day." > > > > > > > >>>> On Sep 13, 1:21 pm, > > > > > > > >>>> DarkwaterBlight<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > >>>>> As much as I can agree with much of what you say, and am a > > > > > > > >>>>> non- > > > > > > > >>>>> christian believer in Christ... I am having a hard time > > > > > > > >>>>> digesting the > > > > > > > >>>>> 'meat' of you statement which is contained in the last > > > > > > > >>>>> sentance. By > > > > > > > >>>>> what means did the christian faith corner the market on > > > > > > > >>>>> knowing what > > > > > > > >>>>> is good for man? You must be reffering to the 'Pauline' > > > > > > > >>>>> brand of > > > > > > > >>>>> modern soothesayers that claim to follow Christ. The likes > > > > > > > >>>>> of wich > > > > > > > >>>>> would say to the starving man; "God bless you in the name > > > > > > > >>>>> of Jesus, > > > > > > > >>>>> I'll pray for you!" and not help the man's hunger or his > > > > > > > >>>>> condition. > > > > > > > >>>>> On Sep 13, 1:39 pm, Alan Wostenberg<[email protected]> > > > > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > > > > >>>>>> Yes, you "can have a feeling of responsibility towards > > > > > > > >>>>>> society and > > > > > > > >>>>>> consider it your duty towards it and do what is good for > > > > > > > >>>>>> you and the > > > > > > > >>>>>> others". But what have feelings to do with doing good? > > > > > > > >>>>>> A man comes upon a starving man, knowing little about > > > > > > > >>>>>> human nature, > > > > > > > >>>>>> offers him a good thick steak and a glass of wine. But the > > > > > > > >>>>>> starving > > > > > > > >>>>>> man cannot digest the food. The first man had a sincere > > > > > > > >>>>>> "feeling of > > > > > > > >>>>>> responsibility", and really wanted to "do what is good for > > > > > > > >>>>>> the other", > > > > > > > >>>>>> but utterly botched it, because he is ignorant of what is > > > > > > > >>>>>> really good > > > > > > > >>>>>> for the other man. > > > > > > > >>>>>> No doubt those with a "humanitarian mindset" mean well, > > > > > > > >>>>>> and act in > > > > > > > >>>>>> accord with what they believe is good for fellow humans, > > > > > > > >>>>>> just like the > > > > > > > >>>>>> Jihadist, or the mercy killer who euthanizes the sick > > > > > > > >>>>>> patient, or the > > > > > > > >>>>>> abortionist, or Hitler. Everybody does what he /believes/ > > > > > > > >>>>>> to be good > > > > > > > >>>>>> for his fellow man. But only those who /know/ what is good > > > > > > > >>>>>> for their > > > > > > > >>>>>> neighbor can consistently deliver. > > > > > > > >>>>>> On the Christian view, if we do not know Christ, we do not > > > > > > > >>>>>> know what > > > > > > > >>>>>> man is, so it is quite impossible to do good for man, > > > > > > > >>>>>> except by > > > > > > > >>>>>> accident. > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Sep 13, 10:30 am, RP Singh<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > >>>>>>> A person can have a humanitarian mindset regardless of > > > > > > > >>>>>>> religion. You don't > > > > > > > >>>>>>> have to believe in God to be good , you can have a > > > > > > > >>>>>>> feeling of responsibility > > > > > > > >>>>>>> towards society and consider it your duty towards it and > > > > > > > >>>>>>> do what is good > > ... > > read more »
