Our understanding of depression is recent- in former times, people were too busy surviving to be depressed, I think. There were some literary attempts to understand melancholy and an entire system explaining moods in the Middle Ages along with various treatments. Though Francis is correct about brain chemistry, I find it hard to differentiate between the effect of drugs or the passage of time that improves this condition and we certainly all know people who commit slow-suicide- which is another topic, I guess. There is a family ripple effect upon families whether arising from physical or mental illness, scandals, financial ruin, etc.- one might consider the recent suicide of the Madoff son but maybe that was separate from his father's downfall. I do think the well-being of family/children does spur one to carry on no matter the circumstances but that raises another topic of sacrifice and the cost to the individual/ego plus we must first define "well-being" as well as consider that sacrifice is often unrewarded in worldly terms or even appreciated by the beneficiaries/mates/children- so one must really depend on one's own values or those of a particular society. The USA has final control over families via its laws.
On Jan 13, 5:14 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > It is all a matter of priorities , in my society well-being of one's > family takes precedence over one's own well-being. > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 3:58 PM, [email protected] > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > You seem to be fixated on suicide because of depression, there are of > > course so many more reasons to contemplate bowing out of this world. > > > I can see though that you have made a judgemtn call pressumably bassed > > around your own feelings on what is strong and what is weak. Contrary > > to your feelings my own tell me that suicide does not belong in the > > realm of the weak but rather the strong. > > > Consider the father, who leaves behiond three young chidlren and a > > greiving wife. He must surley(if in ihis right mind) be aware of the > > pain he will be causeing by his death yet he still goes ahead with his > > plan. The actions of a weak mind or a strong one? > > > Yes it does seem true that the family of a soldier killed in action do > > have a sense of pride(what for I have no idea, but that perhaps is the > > subject of another thread). But how would a suicide leave remeaing > > family destitue, unless you mean in a differant way? > > > The more important question I have asked and yet still remains > > unanswerd, is why is it better that a man keeps suffering to ease the > > suffering on his family that his death may cause? What makes it > > moraly correct (in your head) that the man contemplating suicide > > foregoe the easing of his own suffering to ease the suffering of > > others? Are you asking this man to be a marter, to suffer so that his > > family do not? Do you suppose then that his suffering is somehow of a > > lesser degree than the suffering his death may cuase his family? > > > On Jan 12, 2:33 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Death is certain , so why hurry it? You are going to die any way so why not > >> give yourself a chance ? Depressions are usually temporary and if a person > >> is patient most of the time it blows over and a man starts enjoying life. > >> In > >> depression the assessment of the sufferer becomes negative , everything > >> looks black to him. It is not so , if the person tries to calm himself , he > >> sees the better side of life. Most of the time people who are living really > >> horrible life do not commit suicide , it is the weak and negative people > >> who > >> commit suicide. They are not really suffering much , rather they have just > >> become negative and see everything in a morbid manner. As for shame , a > >> soldier who dies in a war leaves his family sad but proud and the father > >> who just goes and shoots himself leaves a family destitute and broken. > > >> On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 8:50 PM, [email protected] < > > >> [email protected]> wrote: > >> > Shame is sooooooo subjective my freind that I simply cannot belive > >> > that all sucides are shamfull deaths, and why would any human feel > >> > shame on themselfs for the sucicide of somebody dear to them? or put > >> > another why, I have read your claim and now I ask why it is so? > > >> > Why does the family of the man who commits sucide suffer an indignaty? > > >> > Why should the same man instead suffer more so to eleviate the shame, > >> > suffering and indignaty of his family(these are your words, I really > >> > have not the first idea why these people would feel any of this)? > > >> > As I have already asked you, why would you ask others to suffer so > >> > that by doing so they cause > >> > suffering in others to cease? Are you asking those who wish for 'no > >> > more' to prolong their agnony for some imagined shame, or suffering or > >> > indignaty that their families may or may not feel? > > >> > Life is not sancrosanct, do you belive it is? > > >> > Some depression is indeed temporary, others suffer for the whole of > >> > their lives, one rule then simply does not in this context surfice for > >> > all. > > >> > Yes death is inevitable, but do you not agree that a rational human > >> > has every right to say when their life ends? > > >> > Are you concerns then simply about the mannor of death? A natural > >> > death of old age or even a painfull death from illness is preferable > >> > to takeing your own life? What is then about differant modes of death > >> > that may bring shame, indignaty and suffering to family members, or > >> > may not? > > >> > Hope is divine. Everything is divine my freind. And you actualy tell > >> > us a massive whooper here > >> > when you say: > > >> > 'Hope is divine and one should not ever give up because most of the > >> > time things change for the better' > > >> > The reality is that for the vast majority of us and the vast majority > >> > of times, we do noty get things the way we want them, or things do no > >> > change for the better most of the time. > > >> > Life i a funny old thing, sometimes you get to live it exactly how you > >> > wish, mostly though you bear the bad times and when the good times > >> > come you enjoy them. > > >> > On Jan 10, 5:26 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > When someone commits suicide it is not a simple death , rather it is a > >> > > shameful one for the family and often it leads to sorrow and trouble > >> > > for > >> > the > >> > > loved ones. The person who has died has escaped the frustrations of > >> > > life > >> > but > >> > > he has left a life of indignity and sorrow for his children , if had > >> > borne > >> > > with his suffering a bit more he would have got over his troubles and > >> > saved > >> > > his family from much indignity and frustration. Most of the times a > >> > person > >> > > commits suicide in a mood of desperation which if had borne a bit he > >> > would > >> > > have got over it and would have gone about his life in a much better > >> > frame > >> > > of mind.Depression is temporary and runs it course , after which the > >> > > sufferer goes about his work in a better frame of mind. Again death is > >> > > inevitable and no matter how much you are suffering it will end one > >> > > day , > >> > so > >> > > why not keep hope and give yourself another chance for whether you are > >> > like > >> > > it or not death will knock at your door sooner or later , so why > >> > > prepone > >> > > death. Hope is divine and one should not ever give up because most of > >> > > the > >> > > time things change for the better , and as you will die anyway there is > >> > no > >> > > harm in being hopeful for the remaining period of your life. > > >> > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:57 PM, [email protected] < > > >> > > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > Sorry I have to call tosh on this one. People die and when they do > >> > > > those left behind DO get over their deaths. Why would a loved ones > >> > > > death be pain 100 times over? Death is inevitable depression is a > >> > > > living death for some. Pain 100 times over? Not even close. > > >> > > > On Jan 9, 9:39 pm, Manfraco Frank Elder <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > Hi everybody! > >> > > > > I have to say that I have heard many time that one wishes to end it > >> > > > > all, so, suicide is on some people minds when they do not see a way > >> > > > > out from their sorrows and pains. At the same time I have to say > >> > > > > that > >> > > > > you are right RP when you say that pain will be increased a hundred > >> > > > > times to the people surrounding those who commit suicide, but what > >> > > > > could those same people have done to prevent that suicide? I think > >> > > > > that is the question that we have to ask ourselves, when we find > >> > > > > ourselves in such a situation? > >> > > > > My regards to you all, > >> > > > > Manfraco > > >> > > > > On Jan 9, 9:53 pm, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > > I tend to agree with the insurmountable suffering, but even > >> > > > > > there I > >> > am > >> > > > not > >> > > > > > sure. I do know that in long duration fasting the hunger only > >> > > > > > last > >> > for > >> > > > a > >> > > > > > few days especially if you find something to occupy your time. I > >> > > > > > do > >> > > > know > >> > > > > > that taking advantage of the situations one is in and open up to > >> > the > >> > > > > > experience can lead into some pretty amazing situations. That has > >> > > > occurred > >> > > > > > in the past for me, 'What works I am not about to fix.' > > >> > > > > > Now the teenage in depression,, well that comes between him and > >> > > > > > the > >> > > > > > Creator,but I tend to think that the emotional turmoil they are > >> > going > >> > > > > > through will then continue through all eternity and their death > >> > will be > >> > > > > > added to it. > >> > > > > > But what do I know.. just the reasons I don't like the idea for > >> > myself. > >> > > > > > Allan > > >> > > > > > On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > > > On 1/8/2011 9:28 AM, RP Singh wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> When a man is under depression he tries to escape pain by > >> > committing > >> > > > > > >> suicide , but does he really escape pain? No he increases it > >> > > > hundredfold. > >> > > > > > >> The pain and sorrow that his family and friends feel at his > >> > demise > >> > > > is > >> > > > > > >> actually a pain that is experienced by that individual. > >> > > > > > >> Escapism > >> > is > >> > > > no > >> > > > > > >> remedy , the only way is to struggle and bear through all > >> > hardships. > >> > > > To > >> > > > > > >> fight throughout is the only way and as death will eventually > >> > come, > >> > > > why > >> > > > > > >> prepone it. > > >> > > > > > > And there are worse things than death. There are many ways > >> > however to > >> > > > > > > minimize on the effects to others, such as drinking a bottle of > >> > rum > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > > passing out while out camping or hunting in extreme cold. > >> > > > > > > Making > >> > it > >> > > > look > >> > > > > > > accidental however deprives others from the truth of why, and > >> > there > >> > > > is > >> > > > > > > always the element of wasted potential to reconcile. I agree > >> > > > > > > one > >> > > > should have > >> > > > > > > the right to die with some dignity if facing insurmountable > >> > > > suffering, but > >> > > > > > > it should be held a sacred right and protected as much as > >> > possible > >> > > > from > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
