It is all a matter of priorities , in my society well-being of one's family takes precedence over one's own well-being.
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 3:58 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > You seem to be fixated on suicide because of depression, there are of > course so many more reasons to contemplate bowing out of this world. > > I can see though that you have made a judgemtn call pressumably bassed > around your own feelings on what is strong and what is weak. Contrary > to your feelings my own tell me that suicide does not belong in the > realm of the weak but rather the strong. > > Consider the father, who leaves behiond three young chidlren and a > greiving wife. He must surley(if in ihis right mind) be aware of the > pain he will be causeing by his death yet he still goes ahead with his > plan. The actions of a weak mind or a strong one? > > Yes it does seem true that the family of a soldier killed in action do > have a sense of pride(what for I have no idea, but that perhaps is the > subject of another thread). But how would a suicide leave remeaing > family destitue, unless you mean in a differant way? > > The more important question I have asked and yet still remains > unanswerd, is why is it better that a man keeps suffering to ease the > suffering on his family that his death may cause? What makes it > moraly correct (in your head) that the man contemplating suicide > foregoe the easing of his own suffering to ease the suffering of > others? Are you asking this man to be a marter, to suffer so that his > family do not? Do you suppose then that his suffering is somehow of a > lesser degree than the suffering his death may cuase his family? > > On Jan 12, 2:33 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> Death is certain , so why hurry it? You are going to die any way so why not >> give yourself a chance ? Depressions are usually temporary and if a person >> is patient most of the time it blows over and a man starts enjoying life. In >> depression the assessment of the sufferer becomes negative , everything >> looks black to him. It is not so , if the person tries to calm himself , he >> sees the better side of life. Most of the time people who are living really >> horrible life do not commit suicide , it is the weak and negative people who >> commit suicide. They are not really suffering much , rather they have just >> become negative and see everything in a morbid manner. As for shame , a >> soldier who dies in a war leaves his family sad but proud and the father >> who just goes and shoots himself leaves a family destitute and broken. >> >> On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 8:50 PM, [email protected] < >> >> >> >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > Shame is sooooooo subjective my freind that I simply cannot belive >> > that all sucides are shamfull deaths, and why would any human feel >> > shame on themselfs for the sucicide of somebody dear to them? or put >> > another why, I have read your claim and now I ask why it is so? >> >> > Why does the family of the man who commits sucide suffer an indignaty? >> >> > Why should the same man instead suffer more so to eleviate the shame, >> > suffering and indignaty of his family(these are your words, I really >> > have not the first idea why these people would feel any of this)? >> >> > As I have already asked you, why would you ask others to suffer so >> > that by doing so they cause >> > suffering in others to cease? Are you asking those who wish for 'no >> > more' to prolong their agnony for some imagined shame, or suffering or >> > indignaty that their families may or may not feel? >> >> > Life is not sancrosanct, do you belive it is? >> >> > Some depression is indeed temporary, others suffer for the whole of >> > their lives, one rule then simply does not in this context surfice for >> > all. >> >> > Yes death is inevitable, but do you not agree that a rational human >> > has every right to say when their life ends? >> >> > Are you concerns then simply about the mannor of death? A natural >> > death of old age or even a painfull death from illness is preferable >> > to takeing your own life? What is then about differant modes of death >> > that may bring shame, indignaty and suffering to family members, or >> > may not? >> >> > Hope is divine. Everything is divine my freind. And you actualy tell >> > us a massive whooper here >> > when you say: >> >> > 'Hope is divine and one should not ever give up because most of the >> > time things change for the better' >> >> > The reality is that for the vast majority of us and the vast majority >> > of times, we do noty get things the way we want them, or things do no >> > change for the better most of the time. >> >> > Life i a funny old thing, sometimes you get to live it exactly how you >> > wish, mostly though you bear the bad times and when the good times >> > come you enjoy them. >> >> > On Jan 10, 5:26 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > When someone commits suicide it is not a simple death , rather it is a >> > > shameful one for the family and often it leads to sorrow and trouble for >> > the >> > > loved ones. The person who has died has escaped the frustrations of life >> > but >> > > he has left a life of indignity and sorrow for his children , if had >> > borne >> > > with his suffering a bit more he would have got over his troubles and >> > saved >> > > his family from much indignity and frustration. Most of the times a >> > person >> > > commits suicide in a mood of desperation which if had borne a bit he >> > would >> > > have got over it and would have gone about his life in a much better >> > frame >> > > of mind.Depression is temporary and runs it course , after which the >> > > sufferer goes about his work in a better frame of mind. Again death is >> > > inevitable and no matter how much you are suffering it will end one day , >> > so >> > > why not keep hope and give yourself another chance for whether you are >> > like >> > > it or not death will knock at your door sooner or later , so why prepone >> > > death. Hope is divine and one should not ever give up because most of the >> > > time things change for the better , and as you will die anyway there is >> > no >> > > harm in being hopeful for the remaining period of your life. >> >> > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:57 PM, [email protected] < >> >> > > [email protected]> wrote: >> > > > Sorry I have to call tosh on this one. People die and when they do >> > > > those left behind DO get over their deaths. Why would a loved ones >> > > > death be pain 100 times over? Death is inevitable depression is a >> > > > living death for some. Pain 100 times over? Not even close. >> >> > > > On Jan 9, 9:39 pm, Manfraco Frank Elder <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > Hi everybody! >> > > > > I have to say that I have heard many time that one wishes to end it >> > > > > all, so, suicide is on some people minds when they do not see a way >> > > > > out from their sorrows and pains. At the same time I have to say that >> > > > > you are right RP when you say that pain will be increased a hundred >> > > > > times to the people surrounding those who commit suicide, but what >> > > > > could those same people have done to prevent that suicide? I think >> > > > > that is the question that we have to ask ourselves, when we find >> > > > > ourselves in such a situation? >> > > > > My regards to you all, >> > > > > Manfraco >> >> > > > > On Jan 9, 9:53 pm, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > I tend to agree with the insurmountable suffering, but even there I >> > am >> > > > not >> > > > > > sure. I do know that in long duration fasting the hunger only last >> > for >> > > > a >> > > > > > few days especially if you find something to occupy your time. I do >> > > > know >> > > > > > that taking advantage of the situations one is in and open up to >> > the >> > > > > > experience can lead into some pretty amazing situations. That has >> > > > occurred >> > > > > > in the past for me, 'What works I am not about to fix.' >> >> > > > > > Now the teenage in depression,, well that comes between him and the >> > > > > > Creator,but I tend to think that the emotional turmoil they are >> > going >> > > > > > through will then continue through all eternity and their death >> > will be >> > > > > > added to it. >> > > > > > But what do I know.. just the reasons I don't like the idea for >> > myself. >> > > > > > Allan >> >> > > > > > On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > > On 1/8/2011 9:28 AM, RP Singh wrote: >> >> > > > > > >> When a man is under depression he tries to escape pain by >> > committing >> > > > > > >> suicide , but does he really escape pain? No he increases it >> > > > hundredfold. >> > > > > > >> The pain and sorrow that his family and friends feel at his >> > demise >> > > > is >> > > > > > >> actually a pain that is experienced by that individual. Escapism >> > is >> > > > no >> > > > > > >> remedy , the only way is to struggle and bear through all >> > hardships. >> > > > To >> > > > > > >> fight throughout is the only way and as death will eventually >> > come, >> > > > why >> > > > > > >> prepone it. >> >> > > > > > > And there are worse things than death. There are many ways >> > however to >> > > > > > > minimize on the effects to others, such as drinking a bottle of >> > rum >> > > > and >> > > > > > > passing out while out camping or hunting in extreme cold. Making >> > it >> > > > look >> > > > > > > accidental however deprives others from the truth of why, and >> > there >> > > > is >> > > > > > > always the element of wasted potential to reconcile. I agree one >> > > > should have >> > > > > > > the right to die with some dignity if facing insurmountable >> > > > suffering, but >> > > > > > > it should be held a sacred right and protected as much as >> > possible >> > > > from >> > > > > > > manipulation holding severe punishments. An 18 year old can >> > decide >> > > > whether >> > > > > > > to stand in the line of fire, but someone with incurable cancer >> > or >> > > > mind/body >> > > > > > > falling apart cannot say enough is enough until their body can >> > give >> > > > up >> > > > > > > without aid. Insurance companies should hold no weight in the >> > > > discussion. >> >> > > > > > -- >> > > > > > ( >> > > > > > ) >> > > > > > I_D Allan >> >> > > > > > If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken >> > > > > > Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,- Hide quoted text - >> >> > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text -
