Ahhh at last I think we are getting somewhere. So your view then is coloured by your upbringing and your social mores, like the rest of us I suppose.
I do get this, of course I do, but I'm attempting as I do to approach qeustions of morality without emotion. I can't see any reason why anybody should put the welfare of their families above their own welfare. I get that most of us do, but I think we do so out of a natural paternal/maturnal protective instinct. Like everything though it should all be thought of along a case by case basis really. What if the man that kills himself gets his family out of money problems with his life insurance, is this not the father looking after the long term finacial prospects for his family? No I see nowt wrong, or indeed weak in decideing for oneself when to end your own life. It should be gareenteed us as a basic freedom. On Jan 13, 11:14 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > It is all a matter of priorities , in my society well-being of one's > family takes precedence over one's own well-being. > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 3:58 PM, [email protected] > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > You seem to be fixated on suicide because of depression, there are of > > course so many more reasons to contemplate bowing out of this world. > > > I can see though that you have made a judgemtn call pressumably bassed > > around your own feelings on what is strong and what is weak. Contrary > > to your feelings my own tell me that suicide does not belong in the > > realm of the weak but rather the strong. > > > Consider the father, who leaves behiond three young chidlren and a > > greiving wife. He must surley(if in ihis right mind) be aware of the > > pain he will be causeing by his death yet he still goes ahead with his > > plan. The actions of a weak mind or a strong one? > > > Yes it does seem true that the family of a soldier killed in action do > > have a sense of pride(what for I have no idea, but that perhaps is the > > subject of another thread). But how would a suicide leave remeaing > > family destitue, unless you mean in a differant way? > > > The more important question I have asked and yet still remains > > unanswerd, is why is it better that a man keeps suffering to ease the > > suffering on his family that his death may cause? What makes it > > moraly correct (in your head) that the man contemplating suicide > > foregoe the easing of his own suffering to ease the suffering of > > others? Are you asking this man to be a marter, to suffer so that his > > family do not? Do you suppose then that his suffering is somehow of a > > lesser degree than the suffering his death may cuase his family? > > > On Jan 12, 2:33 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Death is certain , so why hurry it? You are going to die any way so why not > >> give yourself a chance ? Depressions are usually temporary and if a person > >> is patient most of the time it blows over and a man starts enjoying life. > >> In > >> depression the assessment of the sufferer becomes negative , everything > >> looks black to him. It is not so , if the person tries to calm himself , he > >> sees the better side of life. Most of the time people who are living really > >> horrible life do not commit suicide , it is the weak and negative people > >> who > >> commit suicide. They are not really suffering much , rather they have just > >> become negative and see everything in a morbid manner. As for shame , a > >> soldier who dies in a war leaves his family sad but proud and the father > >> who just goes and shoots himself leaves a family destitute and broken. > > >> On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 8:50 PM, [email protected] < > > >> [email protected]> wrote: > >> > Shame is sooooooo subjective my freind that I simply cannot belive > >> > that all sucides are shamfull deaths, and why would any human feel > >> > shame on themselfs for the sucicide of somebody dear to them? or put > >> > another why, I have read your claim and now I ask why it is so? > > >> > Why does the family of the man who commits sucide suffer an indignaty? > > >> > Why should the same man instead suffer more so to eleviate the shame, > >> > suffering and indignaty of his family(these are your words, I really > >> > have not the first idea why these people would feel any of this)? > > >> > As I have already asked you, why would you ask others to suffer so > >> > that by doing so they cause > >> > suffering in others to cease? Are you asking those who wish for 'no > >> > more' to prolong their agnony for some imagined shame, or suffering or > >> > indignaty that their families may or may not feel? > > >> > Life is not sancrosanct, do you belive it is? > > >> > Some depression is indeed temporary, others suffer for the whole of > >> > their lives, one rule then simply does not in this context surfice for > >> > all. > > >> > Yes death is inevitable, but do you not agree that a rational human > >> > has every right to say when their life ends? > > >> > Are you concerns then simply about the mannor of death? A natural > >> > death of old age or even a painfull death from illness is preferable > >> > to takeing your own life? What is then about differant modes of death > >> > that may bring shame, indignaty and suffering to family members, or > >> > may not? > > >> > Hope is divine. Everything is divine my freind. And you actualy tell > >> > us a massive whooper here > >> > when you say: > > >> > 'Hope is divine and one should not ever give up because most of the > >> > time things change for the better' > > >> > The reality is that for the vast majority of us and the vast majority > >> > of times, we do noty get things the way we want them, or things do no > >> > change for the better most of the time. > > >> > Life i a funny old thing, sometimes you get to live it exactly how you > >> > wish, mostly though you bear the bad times and when the good times > >> > come you enjoy them. > > >> > On Jan 10, 5:26 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > When someone commits suicide it is not a simple death , rather it is a > >> > > shameful one for the family and often it leads to sorrow and trouble > >> > > for > >> > the > >> > > loved ones. The person who has died has escaped the frustrations of > >> > > life > >> > but > >> > > he has left a life of indignity and sorrow for his children , if had > >> > borne > >> > > with his suffering a bit more he would have got over his troubles and > >> > saved > >> > > his family from much indignity and frustration. Most of the times a > >> > person > >> > > commits suicide in a mood of desperation which if had borne a bit he > >> > would > >> > > have got over it and would have gone about his life in a much better > >> > frame > >> > > of mind.Depression is temporary and runs it course , after which the > >> > > sufferer goes about his work in a better frame of mind. Again death is > >> > > inevitable and no matter how much you are suffering it will end one > >> > > day , > >> > so > >> > > why not keep hope and give yourself another chance for whether you are > >> > like > >> > > it or not death will knock at your door sooner or later , so why > >> > > prepone > >> > > death. Hope is divine and one should not ever give up because most of > >> > > the > >> > > time things change for the better , and as you will die anyway there is > >> > no > >> > > harm in being hopeful for the remaining period of your life. > > >> > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:57 PM, [email protected] < > > >> > > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > Sorry I have to call tosh on this one. People die and when they do > >> > > > those left behind DO get over their deaths. Why would a loved ones > >> > > > death be pain 100 times over? Death is inevitable depression is a > >> > > > living death for some. Pain 100 times over? Not even close. > > >> > > > On Jan 9, 9:39 pm, Manfraco Frank Elder <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > Hi everybody! > >> > > > > I have to say that I have heard many time that one wishes to end it > >> > > > > all, so, suicide is on some people minds when they do not see a way > >> > > > > out from their sorrows and pains. At the same time I have to say > >> > > > > that > >> > > > > you are right RP when you say that pain will be increased a hundred > >> > > > > times to the people surrounding those who commit suicide, but what > >> > > > > could those same people have done to prevent that suicide? I think > >> > > > > that is the question that we have to ask ourselves, when we find > >> > > > > ourselves in such a situation? > >> > > > > My regards to you all, > >> > > > > Manfraco > > >> > > > > On Jan 9, 9:53 pm, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > > I tend to agree with the insurmountable suffering, but even > >> > > > > > there I > >> > am > >> > > > not > >> > > > > > sure. I do know that in long duration fasting the hunger only > >> > > > > > last > >> > for > >> > > > a > >> > > > > > few days especially if you find something to occupy your time. I > >> > > > > > do > >> > > > know > >> > > > > > that taking advantage of the situations one is in and open up to > >> > the > >> > > > > > experience can lead into some pretty amazing situations. That has > >> > > > occurred > >> > > > > > in the past for me, 'What works I am not about to fix.' > > >> > > > > > Now the teenage in depression,, well that comes between him and > >> > > > > > the > >> > > > > > Creator,but I tend to think that the emotional turmoil they are > >> > going > >> > > > > > through will then continue through all eternity and their death > >> > will be > >> > > > > > added to it. > >> > > > > > But what do I know.. just the reasons I don't like the idea for > >> > myself. > >> > > > > > Allan > > >> > > > > > On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > > > On 1/8/2011 9:28 AM, RP Singh wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> When a man is under depression he tries to escape pain by > >> > committing > >> > > > > > >> suicide , but does he really escape pain? No he increases it > >> > > > hundredfold. > >> > > > > > >> The pain and sorrow that his family and friends feel at his > >> > demise > >> > > > is > >> > > > > > >> actually a pain that is experienced by that individual. > >> > > > > > >> Escapism > >> > is > >> > > > no > >> > > > > > >> remedy , the only way is to struggle and bear through all > >> > hardships. > >> > > > To > >> > > > > > >> fight throughout is the only way and as death will eventually > >> > come, > >> > > > why > >> > > > > > >> prepone it. > > >> > > > > > > And there are worse things than death. There are many ways > >> > however to > >> > > > > > > minimize on the effects to others, such as drinking a bottle of > >> > rum > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > > passing out while out camping or hunting in extreme cold. > >> > > > > > > Making > >> > it > >> > > > look > >> > > > > > > accidental however deprives others from the truth of why, and > >> > there > >> > > > is > >> > > > > > > always the element of wasted potential to reconcile. I agree > >> > > > > > > one > >> > > > should have > >> > > > > > > the right to die with some dignity if facing insurmountable > >> > > > suffering, but > >> > > > > > > it should be held a sacred right and protected as much as > >> > possible > >> > > > from > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
