Aezen Could you expand on your concept of transcendentalism? On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Æzen <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Jan 31, 4:00 am, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello and greetings Aezen my replies are mixed in the post below. > > > > On 1/29/2011 10:47 PM, zen wrote: > > > > > This is my first post here, so I thought that this post I shared in > > > another group would actually be a good introduction here =] > > > > > *** > > > > > "There are 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a > > > miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." > > > - Einstein > > > > > In science, nature - or at least energy - is taken to be something > > > inert and void of consciousness. Only from some quirk in the evolution > > > of chemistry arising in abiogenises, that engenders evolution of life > > > is consciousness derived in ever more intricate and developed ways of > > > expression. > > > > > However, on the quantum level, it is the interaction of basic energies > > > that give rise to the fundamental forces - the laws of natural > > > behaviour (also referred to as the fundamental interactions). These > > > most basic interactions of energy give rise to all the variety of > > > chemical, biological relationships. That again go on to evolve ever > > > further, to the point that the interaction of individuals gives rise > > > to society, and then nations and global poltics and economics. Yet no > > > matter the level of relationship or interaction we want to discuss, > > > all relationships are built out of the same fundamental relationships > > > between energies. > > > > > To suggest that consciousness may exist in energy, yet just like a bit > > > in a computer, a lone quanta of energy doesn't do very much. But build > > > up the bits and a computer can do amazing things - but all from the > > > same fundamentals of a simple 'On& Off'. Similarly, energy could > > > simply be consciousness in an undeveloped 'raw' form. > > > > > "God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal, and > > > awakens in man." > > > - Ibn al 'Arabi > > > > > I am not referring to the God of any scripture. But Einsteins > > > 'pantheistic' leniency towards seeing nature as divine. > > > > > And I agree. I do not believe that a rock is conscious in the same > > > sense as we ordinarly define consciousness... but that the very same > > > interactions that have coellesced in a particular way to form a rock > > > are the same that have have formed different relationships that have > > > formed our biology. > > > > > I'm basically dancing around the point that we are very much divine > > > entities, that our lives are spiritual experiences - however, that > > > doesn't entail the need for an individual soul. Merely that there is > > > one eternal universal soul that we are apart of. > > > > > You can intepret this in a religious context... but I don't see the > > > need. If that is as it is, then that is simply it. And as much, > > > science is the best tool we have to explore nature. In that sense, > > > science, in my opinion, must realise that it IS very much a guide on > > > morality& ethics, because it explains to us who we are and why we are > > > as best it can. > > > > > That rational argument must be the only true way to derive our ethics > > > because it opens things up to be tested and see if they hold true. > > > What consquences do our actions have? And how can we improve them, and > > > improve ourselves? > > > > Yes, and the philosophy of science at times will call our attention to > > cultural anthropology or other fields as they merit, all within science > > IMO. I myself have a very high regard for science as an evolving > > paradigm spanning all things, especially the living which devise tools > > to interpret environmental information. In my personal belief science is > > complementary to nature. > > > > Very much so. A tool to better understand and even percieve nature. > > > When at peace, when my mood is amenable to it, or otherwise thrust into > > consciousness like the most apparent truth I feel very similarly. At > > times I hold both perspectives in equanimity, transcendentalist and > > naturalist, I have no expression for it.. > > The feeling is mutual. However, I dislike the notion of > transcendentalism. I prefer to consider it as more a permeation of, or > merging with the more sublime essence of nature, rather than rising > above it. > > > > I am very much into Buddhist and Daoist philosophies. Though, I > > > consider myself a 'Bukist' (my nickname amongst friends is Buk =] )... > > > I believe that progress of an individual can only be made when they > > > believe that they can live up to the highest moral ideals - even if we > > > don't know what they are, to at least believe we can try and discover > > > them > > > > > I am neither a pessimist nor an optimist, yet a little of both. > > > Buddhism has taught me the value of balance between all extremes. The > > > middle path. All things in moderation - even moderation in moderation! > > > > As a good friend says it, "All things in moderation, especially > moderation." > > > > > It is healthy to explore the variety of life, yet even better is to > > > come to understand the cycles of our own habits as individuals, and > > > our general habits as humans. I believe that by being aware of our > > > potential to cause harm form our animalistic nature, to our ability to > > > be influenced under social pressures allows us to begin to free > > > ourselves from them - to understand our nature and help express it in > > > productive and creative ways. To choose the things that infuences us. > > > > > Before I finish. I will say that I realise Buddhism as a religion is > > > full of its own pitfalls of a religion. That it's socio-economic > > > tradition is unsustainable and detrimental to a society. Yet, the core > > > philosophy - that life is stressful, life is suffering brought about > > > by our ignorance and attachments to certain things - is a beautiful, > > > apt and in my experience, a true teaching of our human condition. > > > Learning to be apart of life, but letting go of wanting more from each > > > moment, and simply making the most of what is right in front of you. > > > - That doesn't deny responsibility to make plans. It tries to free us > > > from the stress of worry to allows us to then do our best in any > > > particular moment, from having learned about the cycles, habbits and > > > patterns of ourselves and nature - our greater nature. > > > > > I will not deny that I wished more people understood Buddhism& Daoism > > > in the way I have experienced those philosophies. But that's the crux > > > for anyone. That we all think we're right. It's a contradtion to > > > believe you're wrong!! Even if you think you are wrong now about > > > something, an idea, an action - you are sitll thinking that you are > > > right, in that moment, about being wrong, in another moment! > > > > A favorite topic of mine is assessments because the dynamics can be very > > complex or simple and revealing, and much of it boils down to such > > logical statements. One key point is comprehension, if the matter or > > variables are beyond comprehension one cannot trust oneself to make the > > best judgement, and wouldn't likely be able to identify the best sources > > of information. A smarting example is investing faith in certainty, a > > thing some make into a 'religion', that leads one into reductio ad > > absurdum by ignoring all contradicting alternative views to support a > > preconceived notion. > > Nicely put... > > > > Not so bad on it's own, except this seems the > > predominant meme pathway, it works because people bow to it > > unconsciously giving in to the majority, a vicious cycle often leaning > > on a false sense of necessity and urgency. > > > > Having studied Psychology, there are many complex issues at play > (obviously), but none so influental as peoples denial of how easily > influenced they are by their peer group to conform. People want to > believe they make their own choices, when it has been my experience > that this is far from, if only rarely true. > - People seek acceptance and validation, and if the dominant culture > in society dictates that a particular religion is 'true', then there > are immense social pressures on any individual to yield to those > pressures and conform. > > Truly, it takes a strong individual to stand up against the majority. > > > Welcome to the group, I am Ash- one who sees boundaries as a challenge, > > knows little about much, thinks endlessly, aided by an atrocious memory. > > > > Thankyou, and I enjoy further discussion =] > > > > > Simply put, I understand that I would like to influence people to look > > > into these philosophies. I have enjoyed them immensley and feel that > > > they have truly taught me alot about how to meditate and observe > > > myself, and thereby seeing so much of me in the others I see around > > > me. > > > > I've had similar experiences with those philosophies, somehow my cursed > > memory is a puzzle of continual renewal and rediscovery. This life I > > have heard of nothing like it, but it is nice to feel others with me and > > very warming to feel others may be like me, it is an unlearning. > > > > The Daoists speak of 'unlearning' as a virtue. To return ourselves > back to the uncarved wooden block. Our primal nature. > > Though I appreciate the sentiment, it to me is not an unlearning, it > is relaxing into yourself. You cannot deny your experiences, nor your > predisposition to react negatively or positively based on your past > experiences/conditionings and your current situation and state of > self. > > So it is a continuous learning. An evolution of experience and > understanding. Diving into the recesses of self and its hidden > stresses and inhibitions to further relax and again create flow where > there were otherwise blockages/attachments/preconceptions. > - So much as this may be in a sense an unlearning, it is only unlearnt > before something better is learned in its place. To forge newer, > better habits in place of old poorer ones. > > > > *********** > > > > > If I could tear you from your dream > > > I d wake you, and then maybe you d see > > > Building our statues for our pride with pain > > > So that we may shade away the light of truth > > > - Away the love silhouette of ourselves > > > Playing in our shadows growing pale and ill > > > - I hide from you, as you hide from me > > > Concealing our view of our reality > > > > > Chorus: > > > I m watchin you watching you > > > Watching you watching me > > > Watching you watching you > > > Paranoid your watching me > > > I m watchin you watching you > > > Watching you watching me > > > Watching this > > > - My borderline mentality > > > - Watching myself falling through my depravity > > > > > Verse: > > > I don t understand what I am > > > I know we can t escape these things we are > > > The irony is this individuality? > > > Or are we caught behind a masquerade of lies? > > > - Away the love silhouette of ourselves > > > Dancing in our shadows growing stale and old > > > - I colour you, as you colour me > > > Drawing our minds through uncertainty" > > > > > ************** > > > > > The above are lyrics of my own from a song called 'Shade'. I hope you > > > don't mind their appreance here =] I felt there some level of > > > relevance to the sentiment I'm trying to express. > > > > Yesterday evening I was pondering the exact same subjects in this song > > (90%), the last thought I had on it was that I have little pride but if > > necessary I will create it where none exists. This to serve when needed > > as a strawman or just something to swallow, 'nothing' can get pretty > > dry. Interesting. > > > > The principle concept behind these lyrics is the idea that we create > characters for ourselves that express certain aspects of our > personalities. That we then project these and believe them to be 'us'. > That we fall into habits of certain ideas that we think of as > ourselves, but they are little more than projections of our dreamed up > self. > - To take ourselves back from these projections and realise that we > can infact express/project ourselves in any numerous way, that the > real us is actually undefined, allowing greater freedom of expression, > and to not take anyone persona or character too seriously... that they > are simultaneously not us, and are us. > > And from this, simply exploring how we interpret or otherwise 'colour' > or perceptions and experiences of each other to match our worldviews. > > In essence, realising the unaviodable and necessary fact that we must > project ourselves in some manner. We cannot altogether simply stop > being someone. But again, to be able to take a step back from ever > needing to take any particular persona too seriously. > > > > I would appreciate any response, any counter points, or even what you > > > may agree upon. I love discussion, and I love refining, undermining > > > and discovering new ideas or perspectives. > > > > > Thankyou > > > - zen > > > > -- ( ) I_D Allan If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
