On Jan 31, 4:00 am, Ash<[email protected]> wrote:
Hello and greetings Aezen my replies are mixed in the post below.
On 1/29/2011 10:47 PM, zen wrote:
This is my first post here, so I thought that this post I shared in
another group would actually be a good introduction here =]
***
"There are 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a
miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
- Einstein
In science, nature - or at least energy - is taken to be something
inert and void of consciousness. Only from some quirk in the evolution
of chemistry arising in abiogenises, that engenders evolution of life
is consciousness derived in ever more intricate and developed ways of
expression.
However, on the quantum level, it is the interaction of basic energies
that give rise to the fundamental forces - the laws of natural
behaviour (also referred to as the fundamental interactions). These
most basic interactions of energy give rise to all the variety of
chemical, biological relationships. That again go on to evolve ever
further, to the point that the interaction of individuals gives rise
to society, and then nations and global poltics and economics. Yet no
matter the level of relationship or interaction we want to discuss,
all relationships are built out of the same fundamental relationships
between energies.
To suggest that consciousness may exist in energy, yet just like a bit
in a computer, a lone quanta of energy doesn't do very much. But build
up the bits and a computer can do amazing things - but all from the
same fundamentals of a simple 'On& Off'. Similarly, energy could
simply be consciousness in an undeveloped 'raw' form.
"God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal, and
awakens in man."
- Ibn al 'Arabi
I am not referring to the God of any scripture. But Einsteins
'pantheistic' leniency towards seeing nature as divine.
And I agree. I do not believe that a rock is conscious in the same
sense as we ordinarly define consciousness... but that the very same
interactions that have coellesced in a particular way to form a rock
are the same that have have formed different relationships that have
formed our biology.
I'm basically dancing around the point that we are very much divine
entities, that our lives are spiritual experiences - however, that
doesn't entail the need for an individual soul. Merely that there is
one eternal universal soul that we are apart of.
You can intepret this in a religious context... but I don't see the
need. If that is as it is, then that is simply it. And as much,
science is the best tool we have to explore nature. In that sense,
science, in my opinion, must realise that it IS very much a guide on
morality& ethics, because it explains to us who we are and why we are
as best it can.
That rational argument must be the only true way to derive our ethics
because it opens things up to be tested and see if they hold true.
What consquences do our actions have? And how can we improve them, and
improve ourselves?
Yes, and the philosophy of science at times will call our attention to
cultural anthropology or other fields as they merit, all within science
IMO. I myself have a very high regard for science as an evolving
paradigm spanning all things, especially the living which devise tools
to interpret environmental information. In my personal belief science is
complementary to nature.
Very much so. A tool to better understand and even percieve nature.
When at peace, when my mood is amenable to it, or otherwise thrust into
consciousness like the most apparent truth I feel very similarly. At
times I hold both perspectives in equanimity, transcendentalist and
naturalist, I have no expression for it..
The feeling is mutual. However, I dislike the notion of
transcendentalism. I prefer to consider it as more a permeation of, or
merging with the more sublime essence of nature, rather than rising
above it.
I am very much into Buddhist and Daoist philosophies. Though, I
consider myself a 'Bukist' (my nickname amongst friends is Buk =] )...
I believe that progress of an individual can only be made when they
believe that they can live up to the highest moral ideals - even if we
don't know what they are, to at least believe we can try and discover
them
I am neither a pessimist nor an optimist, yet a little of both.
Buddhism has taught me the value of balance between all extremes. The
middle path. All things in moderation - even moderation in moderation!
As a good friend says it, "All things in moderation, especially moderation."
It is healthy to explore the variety of life, yet even better is to
come to understand the cycles of our own habits as individuals, and
our general habits as humans. I believe that by being aware of our
potential to cause harm form our animalistic nature, to our ability to
be influenced under social pressures allows us to begin to free
ourselves from them - to understand our nature and help express it in
productive and creative ways. To choose the things that infuences us.
Before I finish. I will say that I realise Buddhism as a religion is
full of its own pitfalls of a religion. That it's socio-economic
tradition is unsustainable and detrimental to a society. Yet, the core
philosophy - that life is stressful, life is suffering brought about
by our ignorance and attachments to certain things - is a beautiful,
apt and in my experience, a true teaching of our human condition.
Learning to be apart of life, but letting go of wanting more from each
moment, and simply making the most of what is right in front of you.
- That doesn't deny responsibility to make plans. It tries to free us
from the stress of worry to allows us to then do our best in any
particular moment, from having learned about the cycles, habbits and
patterns of ourselves and nature - our greater nature.
I will not deny that I wished more people understood Buddhism& Daoism
in the way I have experienced those philosophies. But that's the crux
for anyone. That we all think we're right. It's a contradtion to
believe you're wrong!! Even if you think you are wrong now about
something, an idea, an action - you are sitll thinking that you are
right, in that moment, about being wrong, in another moment!
A favorite topic of mine is assessments because the dynamics can be very
complex or simple and revealing, and much of it boils down to such
logical statements. One key point is comprehension, if the matter or
variables are beyond comprehension one cannot trust oneself to make the
best judgement, and wouldn't likely be able to identify the best sources
of information. A smarting example is investing faith in certainty, a
thing some make into a 'religion', that leads one into reductio ad
absurdum by ignoring all contradicting alternative views to support a
preconceived notion.
Nicely put...
Not so bad on it's own, except this seems the
predominant meme pathway, it works because people bow to it
unconsciously giving in to the majority, a vicious cycle often leaning
on a false sense of necessity and urgency.
Having studied Psychology, there are many complex issues at play
(obviously), but none so influental as peoples denial of how easily
influenced they are by their peer group to conform. People want to
believe they make their own choices, when it has been my experience
that this is far from, if only rarely true.
- People seek acceptance and validation, and if the dominant culture
in society dictates that a particular religion is 'true', then there
are immense social pressures on any individual to yield to those
pressures and conform.
Truly, it takes a strong individual to stand up against the majority.
Welcome to the group, I am Ash- one who sees boundaries as a challenge,
knows little about much, thinks endlessly, aided by an atrocious memory.
Thankyou, and I enjoy further discussion =]
Simply put, I understand that I would like to influence people to look
into these philosophies. I have enjoyed them immensley and feel that
they have truly taught me alot about how to meditate and observe
myself, and thereby seeing so much of me in the others I see around
me.
I've had similar experiences with those philosophies, somehow my cursed
memory is a puzzle of continual renewal and rediscovery. This life I
have heard of nothing like it, but it is nice to feel others with me and
very warming to feel others may be like me, it is an unlearning.
The Daoists speak of 'unlearning' as a virtue. To return ourselves
back to the uncarved wooden block. Our primal nature.
Though I appreciate the sentiment, it to me is not an unlearning, it
is relaxing into yourself. You cannot deny your experiences, nor your
predisposition to react negatively or positively based on your past
experiences/conditionings and your current situation and state of
self.
So it is a continuous learning. An evolution of experience and
understanding. Diving into the recesses of self and its hidden
stresses and inhibitions to further relax and again create flow where
there were otherwise blockages/attachments/preconceptions.
- So much as this may be in a sense an unlearning, it is only unlearnt
before something better is learned in its place. To forge newer,
better habits in place of old poorer ones.
***********
If I could tear you from your dream
I d wake you, and then maybe you d see
Building our statues for our pride with pain
So that we may shade away the light of truth
- Away the love silhouette of ourselves
Playing in our shadows growing pale and ill
- I hide from you, as you hide from me
Concealing our view of our reality
Chorus:
I m watchin you watching you
Watching you watching me
Watching you watching you
Paranoid your watching me
I m watchin you watching you
Watching you watching me
Watching this
- My borderline mentality
- Watching myself falling through my depravity
Verse:
I don t understand what I am
I know we can t escape these things we are
The irony is this individuality?
Or are we caught behind a masquerade of lies?
- Away the love silhouette of ourselves
Dancing in our shadows growing stale and old
- I colour you, as you colour me
Drawing our minds through uncertainty"
**************
The above are lyrics of my own from a song called 'Shade'. I hope you
don't mind their appreance here =] I felt there some level of
relevance to the sentiment I'm trying to express.
Yesterday evening I was pondering the exact same subjects in this song
(90%), the last thought I had on it was that I have little pride but if
necessary I will create it where none exists. This to serve when needed
as a strawman or just something to swallow, 'nothing' can get pretty
dry. Interesting.
The principle concept behind these lyrics is the idea that we create
characters for ourselves that express certain aspects of our
personalities. That we then project these and believe them to be 'us'.
That we fall into habits of certain ideas that we think of as
ourselves, but they are little more than projections of our dreamed up
self.
- To take ourselves back from these projections and realise that we
can infact express/project ourselves in any numerous way, that the
real us is actually undefined, allowing greater freedom of expression,
and to not take anyone persona or character too seriously... that they
are simultaneously not us, and are us.
And from this, simply exploring how we interpret or otherwise 'colour'
or perceptions and experiences of each other to match our worldviews.
In essence, realising the unaviodable and necessary fact that we must
project ourselves in some manner. We cannot altogether simply stop
being someone. But again, to be able to take a step back from ever
needing to take any particular persona too seriously.
I would appreciate any response, any counter points, or even what you
may agree upon. I love discussion, and I love refining, undermining
and discovering new ideas or perspectives.
Thankyou
- zen
