No...actually, for some, attaching to a personal epistemology and convincing themselves that it is reality works too.
On Feb 8, 2:07 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > Ah! I see the problem! Elevating the personal philosophy to a transpersonal > one, would mean entering the realm of religion, would mean no choice but > being the chosen one, which either suits my personal philosophy or it > doesn't. Is that all that keeps us going? > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 3:25 AM, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > It is astonishing to delve into Daoism again, so elegantly it describes my > > long struggle with identity. How could I forget? The fundamental precepts of > > my nature that have stood in stark contrast, this is far too convenient and > > significant.. In my view I see all as nature and the transcendent a growth > > or exploration beyond the horizon that today I can only feel the pull and > > draw of the innermost. I would certainly enjoy hearing more from someone who > > has chosen this path as their personal philosophy! > > > On 2/6/2011 5:51 PM, Ćzen wrote: > > >> On Jan 31, 4:00 am, Ash<[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> Hello and greetings Aezen my replies are mixed in the post below. > > >>> On 1/29/2011 10:47 PM, zen wrote: > > >>> This is my first post here, so I thought that this post I shared in > >>>> another group would actually be a good introduction here =] > >>>> *** > >>>> "There are 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a > >>>> miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." > >>>> - Einstein > >>>> In science, nature - or at least energy - is taken to be something > >>>> inert and void of consciousness. Only from some quirk in the evolution > >>>> of chemistry arising in abiogenises, that engenders evolution of life > >>>> is consciousness derived in ever more intricate and developed ways of > >>>> expression. > >>>> However, on the quantum level, it is the interaction of basic energies > >>>> that give rise to the fundamental forces - the laws of natural > >>>> behaviour (also referred to as the fundamental interactions). These > >>>> most basic interactions of energy give rise to all the variety of > >>>> chemical, biological relationships. That again go on to evolve ever > >>>> further, to the point that the interaction of individuals gives rise > >>>> to society, and then nations and global poltics and economics. Yet no > >>>> matter the level of relationship or interaction we want to discuss, > >>>> all relationships are built out of the same fundamental relationships > >>>> between energies. > >>>> To suggest that consciousness may exist in energy, yet just like a bit > >>>> in a computer, a lone quanta of energy doesn't do very much. But build > >>>> up the bits and a computer can do amazing things - but all from the > >>>> same fundamentals of a simple 'On& Off'. Similarly, energy could > >>>> simply be consciousness in an undeveloped 'raw' form. > >>>> "God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal, and > >>>> awakens in man." > >>>> - Ibn al 'Arabi > >>>> I am not referring to the God of any scripture. But Einsteins > >>>> 'pantheistic' leniency towards seeing nature as divine. > >>>> And I agree. I do not believe that a rock is conscious in the same > >>>> sense as we ordinarly define consciousness... but that the very same > >>>> interactions that have coellesced in a particular way to form a rock > >>>> are the same that have have formed different relationships that have > >>>> formed our biology. > >>>> I'm basically dancing around the point that we are very much divine > >>>> entities, that our lives are spiritual experiences - however, that > >>>> doesn't entail the need for an individual soul. Merely that there is > >>>> one eternal universal soul that we are apart of. > >>>> You can intepret this in a religious context... but I don't see the > >>>> need. If that is as it is, then that is simply it. And as much, > >>>> science is the best tool we have to explore nature. In that sense, > >>>> science, in my opinion, must realise that it IS very much a guide on > >>>> morality& ethics, because it explains to us who we are and why we are > >>>> as best it can. > >>>> That rational argument must be the only true way to derive our ethics > >>>> because it opens things up to be tested and see if they hold true. > >>>> What consquences do our actions have? And how can we improve them, and > >>>> improve ourselves? > > >>> Yes, and the philosophy of science at times will call our attention to > >>> cultural anthropology or other fields as they merit, all within science > >>> IMO. I myself have a very high regard for science as an evolving > >>> paradigm spanning all things, especially the living which devise tools > >>> to interpret environmental information. In my personal belief science is > >>> complementary to nature. > > >>> Very much so. A tool to better understand and even percieve nature. > > >> When at peace, when my mood is amenable to it, or otherwise thrust into > >>> consciousness like the most apparent truth I feel very similarly. At > >>> times I hold both perspectives in equanimity, transcendentalist and > >>> naturalist, I have no expression for it.. > > >> The feeling is mutual. However, I dislike the notion of > >> transcendentalism. I prefer to consider it as more a permeation of, or > >> merging with the more sublime essence of nature, rather than rising > >> above it. > > >> I am very much into Buddhist and Daoist philosophies. Though, I > >>>> consider myself a 'Bukist' (my nickname amongst friends is Buk =] )... > >>>> I believe that progress of an individual can only be made when they > >>>> believe that they can live up to the highest moral ideals - even if we > >>>> don't know what they are, to at least believe we can try and discover > >>>> them > >>>> I am neither a pessimist nor an optimist, yet a little of both. > >>>> Buddhism has taught me the value of balance between all extremes. The > >>>> middle path. All things in moderation - even moderation in moderation! > > >>> As a good friend says it, "All things in moderation, especially > >>> moderation." > > >>> It is healthy to explore the variety of life, yet even better is to > >>>> come to understand the cycles of our own habits as individuals, and > >>>> our general habits as humans. I believe that by being aware of our > >>>> potential to cause harm form our animalistic nature, to our ability to > >>>> be influenced under social pressures allows us to begin to free > >>>> ourselves from them - to understand our nature and help express it in > >>>> productive and creative ways. To choose the things that infuences us. > >>>> Before I finish. I will say that I realise Buddhism as a religion is > >>>> full of its own pitfalls of a religion. That it's socio-economic > >>>> tradition is unsustainable and detrimental to a society. Yet, the core > >>>> philosophy - that life is stressful, life is suffering brought about > >>>> by our ignorance and attachments to certain things - is a beautiful, > >>>> apt and in my experience, a true teaching of our human condition. > >>>> Learning to be apart of life, but letting go of wanting more from each > >>>> moment, and simply making the most of what is right in front of you. > >>>> - That doesn't deny responsibility to make plans. It tries to free us > >>>> from the stress of worry to allows us to then do our best in any > >>>> particular moment, from having learned about the cycles, habbits and > >>>> patterns of ourselves and nature - our greater nature. > >>>> I will not deny that I wished more people understood Buddhism& Daoism > >>>> in the way I have experienced those philosophies. But that's the crux > >>>> for anyone. That we all think we're right. It's a contradtion to > >>>> believe you're wrong!! Even if you think you are wrong now about > >>>> something, an idea, an action - you are sitll thinking that you are > >>>> right, in that moment, about being wrong, in another moment! > > >>> A favorite topic of mine is assessments because the dynamics can be very > >>> complex or simple and revealing, and much of it boils down to such > >>> logical statements. One key point is comprehension, if the matter or > >>> variables are beyond comprehension one cannot trust oneself to make the > >>> best judgement, and wouldn't likely be able to identify the best sources > >>> of information. A smarting example is investing faith in certainty, a > >>> thing some make into a 'religion', that leads one into reductio ad > >>> absurdum by ignoring all contradicting alternative views to support a > >>> preconceived notion. > > >> Nicely put... > > >> Not so bad on it's own, except this seems the > > >>> predominant meme pathway, it works because people bow to it > >>> unconsciously giving in to the majority, a vicious cycle often leaning > >>> on a false sense of necessity and urgency. > > >>> Having studied Psychology, there are many complex issues at play > >> (obviously), but none so influental as peoples denial of how easily > >> influenced they are by their peer group to conform. People want to > >> believe they make their own choices, when it has been my experience > >> that this is far from, if only rarely true. > >> - People seek acceptance and validation, and if the dominant culture > >> in society dictates that a particular religion is 'true', then there > >> are immense social pressures on any individual to yield to those > >> pressures and conform. > > >> Truly, it takes a strong individual to stand up against the majority. > > >> Welcome to the group, I am Ash- one who sees boundaries as a challenge, > >>> knows little about much, thinks endlessly, aided by an atrocious memory. > > >>> Thankyou, and I enjoy further discussion =] > > >> Simply put, I understand that I would like to influence people to look > >>>> into these philosophies. I have enjoyed them immensley and feel that > >>>> they have truly taught me alot about how to meditate and observe > >>>> myself, and thereby seeing so much of me in the others I see around > >>>> me. > > >>> I've had similar experiences with those philosophies, somehow my cursed > >>> memory is a puzzle of continual renewal and rediscovery. This life I > >>> have heard of nothing like it, but it is nice to feel others with me and > >>> very warming to feel others may be like > > ... > > read more >>
