Hey Vam,
Of course I get that, but if you call the words of a person false what inferance can we take from that? Again you have not answered the question, so i'll have to give you my answer and well see what that brings. The point of religous practice is to get you to heaven, or bring you closer to God or end the cycle of birth death rebirth, or whatever your partcular dogma suggests is what God wants of you. The point of dharmic pracitce is to get you to heaven, or bring you closer to God or end the cycle of birth death rebirth, or whatever your partcular dogma suggests is what God wants of you. Ultimatly we have two words, one which I belive to be French in origin the other I belive to be Sanskrit. We know that there are problems with direct translations of words from one language to another, and that ideas may be sutbley differant. So yes I'll agree that Religion and Dharma are not exaclty the same thing, but religoin meaning a way of life dedicated to God, and dharma meaning a path to walk to get you closer to God, I just don't see that much differance, at least not so much as to be worried over. On Sep 15, 6:14 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > First, your contention... > > " By labeling me 'less than' honest, what does this say about the > level > of discourse now Vam ?" > > It just points to how blind we can be in reading, understanding what > is being said in a conversation... here's the quote from my post : > > " ... your recent posts are less than honest, less than true ( to your > own self !)." > > It was your post, Lee, NOT YOU that I felt ( NOT LABELLED ) as being > less than honest. > > The level of discourse is not the best as could be, I feel, but not > because of any ad hominem hurls. It is because the topic is too subtle > to detail, to our grossified sensibilities that are satisfied with > symbols, books, alters, statues, rituals, sounds, and cursory > prematureness. > > Dharmic practice starts with ourself, is about us reaching to that > honest voice within us and, having reached, living by it alone... > progressing all the while to include enhanced awareness, more > mindfulness, greater critical discrimination... and, finally, lodging > with the truth revealed within us, clarified and untouched by our own > transient subjectivity. > > Religious practice is all that you do and are doing. > > On Sep 14, 7:08 pm, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Heh rejoice, naaa man I'm not like that. > > > No sir I agreed with your definitions, and then I said I see no > > differance between what I have called dogma and what you call dharma. > > > Let me ask agian what is the point of dharmic practice, what is the > > point of religious practice? > > > The point of both you understand, not any further definintion. > > > Those who think that religion is a root of morality are deluding > > themselves Vam. My own morality was there ever before I was old > > enough to even hear about the concept of God, wasn't yours? So nope > > religon is no reason for being honest. > > > By labeling me 'less than' honest, what does this say about the level > > of discourse now Vam? > > > On Sep 14, 1:41 pm, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Sep 13, 2:46 pm, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Meh! Vam giving in so easily? > > > > Rejoice, Lee ! > > > > > Yes Panth and Amrit is religous dogma, and Ik onkar is the root of the > > > > faith so could be called dharma. But I say that religous practices, > > > > or dogma if you wish is the same as dharma. > > > > You saw the difference but did come back to say there is no > > > difference ! So, whilst you can say anything, check up on yourself for > > > the contradictions you are dishing out. > > > > > As I asked you Vam, what is the point of dharmic practice, what is the > > > > point of religious practice? > > > > Dharma is truth. Religion is claim of truth. > > > > Dharma is honesty without a reason. Religion is reasons for being > > > honest. > > > > In fact, in my view, your recent posts are less than honest, less than > > > true ( to your own self !). > > > Which you can only cover up, in truth, by situating yourself in Dharma > > > and not on religion, whatever it be. > > > > > On Sep 12, 6:27 pm, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I'll be a little sharp here, Lee. > > > > > > The Panth, Akal Takht, and the Amrit rituals in Sikhism is religion, > > > > > Lee. > > > > > > Eko Onkar... kindness, compassion, unity in diversity, honesty, > > > > > truthfulness... is dharma. > > > > > > Religion claim dharma but are not. Dharma claims no religion. It just > > > > > is. > > > > > > There is nothing more to be said on the topic, to those who may > > > > > appreciate and to those who cannot. > > > > > > Lee Douglas wrote: > > > > > > Heh yep I disagree with Vam, clearly. I see no differance and see > > > > > > this as a purely semantic issue. Perhaps Vam simply does not like > > > > > > the > > > > > > conitations of the word religion (for some) in his own religion. > > > > > > > I agree that perhaps the word Dharma is not a straight translation > > > > > > of > > > > > > the word Religion or indeed the other way around. But the concepts > > > > > > are exaclty the same. See RP Singhs post, he has it right I belive. > > > > > > > On Sep 12, 4:49 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Vam is referring to the old concept of dharma and that has > > > > > > > nothing at all > > > > > > > to do with religion,, as wit all things in evolution meaning of > > > > > > > words also > > > > > > > change evolve. Well Lee you and I have different concepts than > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > people. > > > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Lee Douglas > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'll say it again. I find no differance between the concepts of > > > > > > > > dharma and religoin. > > > > > > > > > What is the point of dharmic practice, what is the point of > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > practice? > > > > > > > > > On Sep 10, 8:32 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Therefore ? I didn't see the logic. > > > > > > > > > > Dharma is universal values... I agree that isn't very > > > > > > > > > universal ! > > > > > > > > > > rigsy03 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > How is one instructed by Dharma except by tradition? > > > > > > > > > > Therefore it does > > > > > > > > > > not exist as a Universal. > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 9, 10:12 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > A post elsewhere... which cud be juxtaposed with thoughts > > > > > > > > > > > generally > > > > > > > > > > > expressed here : > > > > > > > > > > > > " ... the word " religion " itself is a Western > > > > > > > > > > > construct, meaning as > > > > > > > > > > > it came to be practiced by people - looking for > > > > > > > > > > > salvation, believing > > > > > > > > > > > what they were told, and launching on their conversion > > > > > > > > > > > drives > > > > > > > > > > > everywhere they went with their gun and swords and > > > > > > > > > > > recycled loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > " Dharma is a totally different construct... the whole > > > > > > > > > > > universe of > > > > > > > > > > > values and truths in and of which all beings are born, in > > > > > > > > > > > and of > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > they live, in and of which they depart, and in and of > > > > > > > > > > > which they are > > > > > > > > > > > reborn. It is life and living itself, which exhorts us to > > > > > > > > > > > do the > > > > > > > > > > > needful and the right, even while leaving us with the > > > > > > > > > > > freedom and the > > > > > > > > > > > choice to do otherwise, as we please but with their > > > > > > > > > > > respective > > > > > > > > > > > consequences. > > > > > > > > > > > > " Dharma is life itself, and the way of living in accord > > > > > > > > > > > to universal > > > > > > > > > > > values and truths." > > > > > > > > > > > > ornamentalmind wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yet, are those traditions in any way strictly > > > > > > > > > > > > monotheistic? Most > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > I am aware of do not make such a claim; although as you > > > > > > > > > > > > say some > > > > > > > > do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > When it comes to the presentation of an argument, the > > > > > > > > > > > > terms used > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > often important as Vam knows. Making a claim for all > > > > > > > > > > > > cases in such > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > case is asking for rebuttal. Of course, that may have > > > > > > > > > > > > been his > > > > > > > > intent! > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 9, 4:16 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would disagree in that there are mystical > > > > > > > > > > > > > traditions to many > > > > > > > > eastern > > > > > > > > > > > > > and western religions that do none of those three. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 9, 6:34 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monotheistic Religions, as they are, do three > > > > > > > > > > > > > > things : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 Assure salvation, the power for which is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > entirely with > > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 Demand Belief in a defined presentation of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thought and > > > > > > > > ideology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 Convert others to their fold through material > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lure, physical > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mental fear and reward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Atheistic disciplines, pantheistic and polytheistic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ways of > > > > > > > > living do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of these. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are therefore not religions as the people in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the West and > > > > > > > > Middle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > East believe in and understand !- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > |_D Allan > > > > > > > > live is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
