Yes, beautiful. The care and respect for children should be taken as self-evident, I assume. Personal responsibility might not run down as smoothly as the other entries, it would only distract from the overall peaceful intention. So yes, let's take this list as a good starting point.
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 2:59 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > That's a beautiful list, Archytas. Thank you. > > On Oct 13, 8:23 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > All cultures I've come across practice deceit - even chimpanzee ones. > > Thus the espoused theories run with theories-in-use. We used to hear > > the phrase 'keeping up with the Jones' a lot here. Cultures are often > > equally daft. There's one with no concept of paternity via sex, > > another that expects rotten selfish behaviour and another that treats > > its leaders with open disgust. Cultures are the problem in many > > cases, little more than Idols of the tribe. I take these as > > important: > > 1.hospitality > > 2.non-violence > > 3. mutual, tolerating respect > > 4.honesty > > 5. good times > > 8.mutual help > > 7.near equality > > 8. open, countervailing institutions > > 9.control over leadership > > 10.self-sustainability (including population control) > > 11.care for the elderly and disabled > > 12.respect and encouragement of innovation > > 13.means to prevent serfdom via capital accumulation, in few hands > > 14. anti-bureaucracy and the presence of satire.joy and thinking well > > of others > > > > On Oct 14, 12:25 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > The first two could be elegance of line and material; the second set > > > is do-able if you can retreat from the worldliness. > > > > > What about joy and humor? Are the cultures too formal and ritualistic? > > > Yet- they like the sound of slurped noodles which makes me smile. > > > > > On Oct 13, 10:28 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Eastern thought : > > > > > > Manifest plainness > > > > Embrace simplicity > > > > Reduce selfishness > > > > Have few desires. > > > > > > ~ Lao Tzu ~ > > > > > > On Oct 13, 6:27 pm, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > When and where did you come across a protest by more than a million > > > > > people against the govt of the day, without a single instance of > > > > > violence or bloodshed... to the point when the govt had to bend and > > > > > give in, further brought to its knees and accede to people's demand > ? > > > > > > > It happened here. Why ? Because everybody can relate to something > > > > > inviolable in our learning from our past, acquired over millenia ! > > > > > > > As I said... I can't fathom a society beset with a million miseries > > > > > that can still radiate a million smiles, where people without means > > > > > and expectations still mean well of others, still find something > > > > > valuable about themselves and their life to be helpful towards > others, > > > > > still look up to the sun in the hopeless mornings, and to the moon > in > > > > > the unbearable nights, and say to themselves, " All is well !" > > > > > > > It's a society where the worldly and the other-worldly is so > enmeshed > > > > > in each other that people easily transit from one to the other... > it's > > > > > revealing of the "cooling thoughts" I previously spoke about. > > > > > > > On Oct 13, 12:22 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I would like to understand what you are saying, Vam. Where is the > cooling > > > > > > thoughts within all this "chaos"? Do not judge? I'm afraid I'm > not getting > > > > > > your point yet. I hope you will enlighten me. Thank you for your > patience > > > > > > with me. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Vam <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > " I need to learn more about Eastern ways. I have read some > things but > > > > > > > have not really integrated them into practice and thinking. I > am > > > > > > > intrigued." > > > > > > > > > Don came back with a stereotype pic of India. I found it too > idiotic a > > > > > > > start to take it forward. > > > > > > > > > People who visit India say they are " overwhelmed !" When > there's > > > > > > > everything around you, anybody would be overcome. When you see > conmen > > > > > > > and that fakir who'd pee on piled billions without a thought... > it > > > > > > > simply becomes inexplicable... the poorest slum before the > richest > > > > > > > mansion in the world, and the integration flowing in between, > before > > > > > > > our eye, make it impossible to reduce the world, life and being > to > > > > > > > black and white images. Judgement then would only add to the > chaos ! > > > > > > > > > So much misery and so many smiles... it's a chaos that works > all > > > > > > > right. But if it doesn't blow up in a million mutinies, the > credit > > > > > > > must go to those cooling thoughts from millenia before that > spread all > > > > > > > over from Asia Minor, Central, East and Far East. > > > > > > > > > Welcome to Eastern Thought ! > > > > > > > > > On Oct 13, 6:41 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Some Protestant religions equated material success with God's > favor so > > > > > > > > that also played a part but yes- the West loves its > rags-to-riches > > > > > > > > darlings, consider those who succeed have the right ambition > and > > > > > > > > virtues- it's rather like a sport, isn't it? I seem to be > missing a > > > > > > > > profit incentive in my genetic make-up- my parents were > fiercely > > > > > > > > materialistic but then I think they had seen the Great > Depression with > > > > > > > > their own eyes even though they were doing fine during the > 30's- like > > > > > > > > one of those peppy films. Yet ownership has risks because you > are > > > > > > > > stuck and culture-laws-wars can turn life upside down so > mother saved > > > > > > > > string and rubber bands as well as a slew of dire warnings. > :-) > > > > > > > > > > I need to learn more about Eastern ways. I have read some > things but > > > > > > > > have not really integrated them into practice and thinking. I > am > > > > > > > > intrigued. > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 11, 11:32 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The West admires those who push themselves to the top... > that's how > > > > > > > > > they've structured their entire reward and punishment > regime, and > > > > > > > > > their economics... marked by ownership. > > > > > > > > > > > The East has always propagated and believed in abnegating > oneself, > > > > > > > > > putting one's ego aside... marked by compassion... despite > that alpha > > > > > > > > > tendency of raising and riding on the ego that nevertheless > happened > > > > > > > > > all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > These are TOTALLY different perspective to living, and > values to guide > > > > > > > > > oneself by ! But the eastern way is possible, and perhaps > the only way > > > > > > > > > out, if only China can unlearn its western ( marxist ) > ideology ! > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 11, 5:17 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I am currently reading Hoffer- books left "behind" by my > ex while he > > > > > > > > > > has my copy of the libretto of "Tristan and Isolde" and > Goethe's " > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > > Sorrows of Young Werther", etc. Quite amusing, at this > point, as he > > > > > > > > > > was a staunch Republican and I, an artsy type back in the > 70's- > > > > > > > > > > perhaps we were trying on each others "shoes". The Hoffer > books are > > > > > > > > > > "The True Believer", "The Passionate State of Mind" and > "The Ordeal > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > Change" and I find "Believer" right on the mark re > today's various > > > > > > > > > > protests- if one can truly call them that. > > > > > > > > > > > > By "manners", do you mean ettiquette? I think the > function of both is > > > > > > > > > > to prevent humans from ripping each other apart- > literally- and > > > > > > > > > > provide "space" to navigate society. > > > > > > > > > > > > The competition among humans is fierce and that's the > myth of > > > > > > > liberty/ > > > > > > > > > > democracy- since groups/ideologies are safer than > independence and > > > > > > > > > > individuality. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a > substitute for > > > > > > > > > > the lost faith in ourselves."//The less justified a man > is in > > > > > > > claiming > > > > > > > > > > excellence for his own self, the more ready is he to > claim all > > > > > > > > > > excellence for his nation, his religion, his race or holy > cause."// > > > > > > > "A > > > > > > > > > > man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth > > > > > > > > > > minding."//"The burning conviction that we have a holy > duty toward > > > > > > > > > > others is often a way of attaching our drowning selves to > passing > > > > > > > > > > raft. What looks like giving a hand is often a holding on > for dear > > > > > > > > > > life. Take away our holy duties and you leave our lives > puny and > > > > > > > > > > meaningless. There is no doubt that in exchanging a > self-centered for > > > > > > > > > > a selfless life we gain enormously in self-esteem. The > vanity of the > > > > > > > > > > selfless even those who practice utmost humility, is > boundless."// > > > > > > > > > > from "The True Believer"- Eric Hoffer > > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond these early quotes, I am reminded over and over > again of > > > > > > > > > > Obama's style and appeal to the masses. Some things never > change. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 10, 6:24 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm always rather saddened when you bring up something > like this > > > > > > > rigsy > > > > > > > > > > > - only because our UK newspapers are so unlikely too. > Civilisation > > > > > > > > > > > and Its Discontents is a key volume in my subject area, > through > > > > > > > > > > > Melanie Klein and the Tavistock School. I tend to the > view of > > > > > > > Freud > > > > > > > > > > > in the eloquent link, though there was madness in his > practice. My > > > > > > > > > > > own stuff tends towards the way 'manners' prevent a > transparency of > > > > > > > > > > > interests (Elias, Veblen) and how much intellectual > effort is > > > > > > > wasted > > > > > > > > > > > in this. It's pretty obvious that the material could > be a very > > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > > > > part of human existence if we weren't in such > competition in it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 10, 7:03 pm, "[email protected]" < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/freud-as-philosopher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A lively essay, I felt, explained some conservative > views well- > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > repression and self-restraint, ambivalence, emotional > > > > > > > unawareness. > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - >
