"Speech has been given to man to hide his thoughts." R.P. Malagrida
On Oct 1, 12:02 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Bill, I noticed that your screen name on the group website is rather > long. It reads: William L. Houts William L. Houts Lukaeon William L. Houts. > I was wondering if this was your intention. > > Maybe yes. Just so much, I do differentiate between heaven and afterlifeand > their individual usability for corruption. Both terms are somehow > related to the future, but the access is different. Sorry, I forgot to > introduce myself. My name is Gabby (short for Gabriele), I am a Protestant, > my first language is German, and I believe in God. I like to listen to > other people's stories which is why I have learned to keep my own very > short. Nice meeting you. :) > > On Friday, September 28, 2012 7:17:08 AM UTC+2, William L. Houts William L. > Houts Lukaeon William L. Houts wrote: > > > > > > > I wonder if humans do dream of uncorrupted worlds, in general. You'd > > think that would be universal, and it does seem to be borne out by > > Western mythologies, with some exceptions. For instance, the Greeks had > > Olympus, but except for Heracles no one got to go there; everyone else > > went to Hades, which was gloomy and boring if you were lucky enough to > > land there in general population, and terrifying if the gods put you in > > Tartarus. And the Romans didn't seem to place faith in any sort of > > afterlife at all, which is one of the main reasons whyChristianity sold > > like hotcakes. Eastern religions such as Buddhism had various hells and > > heavens, but they were sort of besides the point: your karma is / was > > supposed to boil down to nothing and liberate you from the Wheel of > > Rebirth, which was supposed to put you in Nirvana, which was less a > > Heaven than it was a Nowhere. And Taoism doesn't have much to say about > > heavenly afterworlds; its whole point is to make this world more just > > and balanced and leaves heavens to the individual to figure out. > > > But as to your question of whether humans long for uncorrupted worlds, I > > think that besides the Abrahamic religions noone takes them very > > seriously. And I think they've got a point: I mean, if you're taking > > your present existence at all seriously, then just what is an afterlife > > supposed to be about? Are we supposed to be eating bonbons all day and > > living in some version of American luxury? I'd like to believe in > > Heaven --which for me looks like a kind of liberal college town, with > > libraries and funky old cinema houses-- but all of that seems kind of > > empty if there's no gravitas, no seriousness. Without death, without a > > final marker which howls at us, Do what you must do NOW and die knowing > > that you've used your life well--without that, I think heaven would > > become kind of slouchy and boring, or worse. Unless, of course, what's > > waiting for us on the other side is something superrational but > > beautiful, like being absorbed into the godhead, if such there be. > > > So in answer to your question, I think we do dream of uncorrupt worlds, > > but if we examine them too closely, they tend to be bustable soap > > bubbles. And maybe I lack imagination, but I wonder, how could it be any > > other way? Frankly, I'd like to be told how. I sound sensible about all > > of this if a little pessimistic, but in reality I'm a scared ex-Catholic > > who is terrified of death and wants to solve the Big Question before > > they're performing Last Rites on his sorry ass. > > > --Bill > > > On 9/27/2012 7:20 PM, rigsy03 wrote: > > > I wonder where you put the mythological and religious other-worldlies- > > > from gods to guardian angels, etc.? Or the construct of Dante's > > > "Divine Comedy", for instance. Do humans long for uncorrupted worlds? > > > > On Sep 27, 6:23 pm, William L Houts <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> I'm with the pragmatists on the question of intelligent alien species. > > >> Many scientists who speculate on this sort of thing --though there > > >> really aren't that many of them-- say that such species wouldn't > > >> resemble anything so comforting as a humanoid physiology, but I think > > >> they're partly mistaken. Surely there would be surprises in the way > > >> nature cooks up life on other planets with radically different > > >> chemistries than our dear old Mama Earth. But I think there's reason > > to > > >> suppose that many alien species would resemble us. After all, any > > >> species we might imagine has to cope with gravity as it evolves. So > > >> they're much more likely to evolve some form of locomotion which > > >> involves two, four or six pedal extremities (as Fats Waller calls > > them) > > >> rather than three or five: even-numbered legs are less wobbly and > > more > > >> amenable to balanced movement which consumes fewer calories. . Also, > > >> sense organs like eyes and ears are likely to be located in or close > > to > > >> a head, as there is survival value in having sense organs located > > close > > >> to a brain, or whatever such species might use for brains. Finally, > > >> everyone in the cosmos requires energy to get going, so they're either > > >> going to evolve photosynthesis and take their energy directly from > > their > > >> sun or suns, or they're going to take their sunbeams indirectly by > > >> consuming something lower in the food chain. I'm sure there are lots > > of > > >> evolution pathways I'm leaving out, seeing as I'm a curious poetrather > > >> than a serious scientist type of guy, but I think these notions are, > > as > > >> Allan named other ideas of mine, sensible provisos. > > > >> PS. I left out centipedes and millipedes with their scores of legs, > > but > > >> I think y'all's get what I'm saying here. > > > >> --Bill > > > >> On 9/27/2012 3:57 PM, archytas wrote: > > > >>> I haven't seen any UFOs and tend not to be much interested in people > > >>> who claim to have - at least without Bill's sensible provisos. The > > >>> speed of thought as a brain process is slower than light-speed - but > > >>> then I'm basically a tropical fish realist. I'd have a bet that no > > >>> one in this group would really have much of a definition of light- > > >>> speed and the Ricel curvature tensor, Euler Langrangian and the rest > > >>> of Einstein's field equations. I mean no offence and don't do much > > of > > >>> this science myself. > > >>> If you point out to a physicist that the people from the future who > > >>> have invented the time machine are in extraordinarily short supply in > > >>> our present he may come up with some mathematical guff on the shape > > of > > >>> the universe that explains this or makes time travel only possible to > > >>> the future. I have seen demons - plodding back to camp after a > > week's > > >>> endurance exercise with no food for two days I was visually convinced > > >>> the sentries were vampires but still asked them where the Naffi was. > > >>> My guess is that we travel through space as primitive life-forms with > > >>> evolution built-in and waiting to unfold. We may thus have come from > > >>> a much more advanced civilisation than ours bound by the speed of > > >>> light, capable of the biological engineering but not space-flightmuch > > >>> more advanced than our own. Calculations give 28 years as the time to > > >>> reach the edge of the known universe - but this is the time insidethe > > >>> ship accelerating to near light speed fairly slowly. Space is not > > >>> friction free and it's doubtful we or our instruments could take the > > >>> radiation of light-speed flight. > > >>> I rather hope there are some nice, genuinely civilised aliens > > thinking > > >>> of coming here. In my speculation, intelligent life tends to worry > > >>> about food chains led by apes as these have been notoriously war-like. > > > >>> I'm into bees and ants rather than UFOs at the moment. Bees use > > >>> 'pharma' to combat fungal infections. Ants take slaves - killing the > > >>> adults of another species and taking the larvae. These slaves then > > >>> raise the slaver brood. Interestingly, the ant slaves rebel and kill > > >>> the pupae of their masters - an act that does not favour the > > >>> individuals a they will die, but does seem to be altruistic in favour > > >>> of other colonies of the enslaved species. I mention this to suggest > > >>> science is not a human invention, just something in evolution we are > > >>> expanding. > > >>> UFOs remind me of religion generally - people seem to bond around > > >>> ludic claims about golden salamanders and what cannot be proved. I > > >>> guess we will find life or past life-sign on Mars. Salvation may > > come > > >>> from a mother-ship, but my own feeling is that our inability to > > >>> develop science as we could is a more important thought experiment. > > >>> In respect of this problem I recommend 'Bad Pharma' by Ben > > >>> Goldacre, He finds a �600 billion industry in which more money > > is > > >>> spent on marketing than on research and development, where the > > results > > >>> of clinical trials of new drugs are massaged, and in which regulators > > >>> fail to regulate. Papers supposedly by respected academics are > > >>> ghostwritten by drug companies, and patients' pressure groups are > > >>> covertly sponsored by pill manufacturers. > > >>> I can't for the life of me work out why we aren't directing our > > >>> collective towards tapping into the asteroid belt and beyond instead > > >>> of ADMASS. > > >>> On 24 Sep, 20:15, William L Houts <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>> I'm placing my bet on thoughtspeed. It's a great concept and it's a > > >>>> great word. How could I do any better than that? > > >>>> --Bill > > >>>> On 9/24/2012 7:17 AM, Don Johnson wrote: > > >>>>> I agree with Allan the distance challenge is daunting. In an endless > > >>>>> universe there's also no doubt in my mind there are other > > inhabitable > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --
