Morality is sadly subject to the rationalisation Gabby indicates. Otherwise Habermas or Rawls would work or some privileged internal access to the light. I think answers might lie in what we'd be free of material want. One might start by wondering why we seem so scared of such a condition.
On 10 Dec, 23:45, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > Which lie did I tell?? > > 2012/12/10 Allan H <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > I know very well Gabby,, it has taken legs of its own.. the truth is > > yo have to stop the lies and tell the truth not cover it up with more > > lies.. where there is error it needs to be corrected.. yes it means > > rewriting history and let the truth have its legs and give it a > > chance.. yes and it has lead spirituality down a path.. One of the > > problems is the spirituality that Jesus taught has nothing to do with > > crucifixion at all.. people want to claim a easy way out.. rather > > than have to understand what he taught .. there are a lot of people > > who really do understand the spirituality ... the leadership is > > there .. it is the lack of spiritual leadership... probably because > > they can not face the earlier deception .. > > Allan > > > On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 5:19 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I don't know, Allan. This way of telling the story is underestimating the > > > power of cause and effect, the timeline (often seen as leglessly > > moving, > > > non-blinking , poisonous) that allows us to make judgements and correct > > our > > > views - and our path will follow. The poisonous snake bite is as true > > and > > > led us to our here and now as Jesus is the spiritual creator of the > > > Autobahnen on which we will be travelling on Godspeed. Jesusswank in full > > > effect. > > > > 2012/12/9 Allan H <[email protected]> > > > >> I was raised in the same atmosphere.. the only difference was my father > > >> was a convert and it seriously meant something.. > > >> the church of england is on the sideline,, they did that when the king > > >> took control of spirituality so he could have a divorce.. > > > >> The problems in christianity lies in its foundation.. the errors and > > >> problems they built in from the beginning.. minor things like Paul's > > >> healing from a snake bite.. that is a lie.. there are no poisonous > > >> snakes on Malta.. Yes it is hard but you have clean house.. that is > > the > > >> beginning o real and meaningful change.. not administrative garbage.. > > > >> Oddly it can be made to fit and as spirituality goes it really is not > > >> bad, and you will have dual churches and dual beliefs.. but over time > > you > > >> can end the lies,, mostly by not hiding form them .. it get down to > > >> telling the simple truth rather than the comforting lie. > > > >> Many people will not be able to accept the change,, and that is okay,, > > >> the wheels of change need to start rolling.. by going through all the > > past > > >> and what is a lie admit to it and correct it,, bringing it back to one > > >> faith. > > > >> only a few will ever really find he path Jesus created > > >> Allan > > > >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light > > > >> On Dec 9, 2012 4:11 PM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >>> Given what they have done with some decent spiritual messages Allan, I > > >>> sometimes think of 'them' as Xstains. I was born into the tradition, > > >>> but thought it was twaddle by the time Sunday school was interfering > > >>> with soccer and cricket. I have no doubt we should focus more on > > >>> spirituality, fellowship, hospitality, goodwill and sensitivity to > > >>> others. I just don't want to base this on a pack of lies, banning > > >>> women from hierarchies, prejudicing gays and xenophobic stuff about > > >>> outsiders and being part of god's chosen. It's hard to think like > > >>> this without being prejudiced against the 'worshipers of the blue and > > >>> white striped rabbit' and purveyors of godswank. The inner danger is > > >>> becoming religiously anti-religious. I'm actually rather touched by > > >>> good aspects of some of the stuff. > > >>> I have no idea why we are clinging to this rock - but I don't want it > > >>> to be about being amused by Aussie pranksters making hoax calls or > > >>> murals celebrating vile killing such as one finds in the Vatican. > > >>> Science clearly provides us no answers to our spiritual plight and > > >>> religion as I witness it internally is largely about future memory > > >>> with less myth in it and less reason to take religion as we might > > >>> otherwise take opiates. > > >>> A colleague working in India is saying his students are reading Mein > > >>> Kampf - more or less replacing the word Jew with Muslim and agreeing > > >>> the plot entirely. We could do with some sensible religion and > > >>> economics to fill the void that leaves people this vulnerable. > > >>> Knowledge of thermodynamics or the biochemistry of life isn't going to > > >>> do that for us. > > > >>> On Dec 8, 10:01 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> > xtian aka christianity > > > >>> > On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 8:02 AM, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> > > It depends on what religion you are referring to. Very funny line > > >>> > > about Pilate! :-) > > > >>> > > On Dec 6, 4:09 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> > >> Sounds like something Pontius Pilate might have used. > > > >>> > >> I guess that David Deutsch and constructor theory tries to get > > back > > >>> > >> to > > >>> > >> reminding science about its root guesses Allan. I take from > > >>> > >> 'Spartacus Ants' sacrificing themselves to destroy slaver ants > > that > > >>> > >> pre-human biology 'knows' something of survival instinct. > > > >>> > >> Descartes had it that until we could get to a point of > > re-evaluating > > >>> > >> against his radical doubt one had to trust in a beneficent god. > > >>> > >> Whilst we can criticize his system, I think anti-religious science > > >>> > >> misses the beat on issues of how we can live until we know more. > > >>> > >> The > > >>> > >> spiritual thus has its place. There is plenty to avoid in its > > >>> > >> history > > >>> > >> of control fraud, abuse, sexism and war crimes - but plenty to > > learn > > >>> > >> in terms of grace and fellowship. > > > >>> > >> On 6 Dec, 08:15, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >>> > >> > it is not for cleaning hands ,, it just gets rid of smell that > > >>> > >> > you > > >>> > >> > can not get rid of no matter how much you wash.. you just wash > > >>> > >> > after > > >>> > >> > youor hands are clean,, then the smell is gone. > > >>> > >> > Allan > > > >>> > >> > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 11:27 PM, gabbydott <[email protected] > > > >>> > >> > wrote: > > >>> > >> > > Hm, I have never thought of using a steel soap bar for > > cleaning > > >>> > >> > > my hands. I > > >>> > >> > > use it occasionally for my pots and pans. And for the more > > >>> > >> > > difficult dirt on > > >>> > >> > > my hands I use a pumice stone or lemon. And more and more > > often > > >>> > >> > > I wear > > >>> > >> > > gloves or buy frozen and precut garlic and onion. But thanks > > for > > >>> > >> > > the tip. > > >>> > >> > > I'm sure that one day I'll make use of it. Why not steel > > instead > > >>> > >> > > of stone, > > >>> > >> > > you're right. > > > >>> > >> > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 7:54:42 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic > > >>> > >> > > wrote: > > > >>> > >> > >> Well actually Gabby I have this stainless steel soap bar > > used > > >>> > >> > >> for > > >>> > >> > >> getting rid of ordure off your hands things like onion, > > >>> > >> > >> Garlic ,, > > >>> > >> > >> any strong ordure ,, just tried it on the epoxy smell left > > >>> > >> > >> over from > > >>> > >> > >> fixing my maxi egg coddler. > > > >>> > >> > >> now one of the greatest mysteries of the universe,, how does > > >>> > >> > >> it work? > > >>> > >> > >> Allan > > > >>> > >> > >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:38 PM, gabbydott <[email protected] > > > >>> > >> > >> wrote: > > >>> > >> > >> > The pointlessness of the points' business. Like Lee, I find > > >>> > >> > >> > the God > > >>> > >> > >> > concept > > >>> > >> > >> > much more to the point. :) > > > >>> > >> > >> > I don't follow Lee's sequencing model - first spirit, then > > >>> > >> > >> > matter - > > >>> > >> > >> > though. > > >>> > >> > >> > This sounds very man-made to me. ;) > > > >>> > >> > >> > As for the storytelling aspect, yes, the Chronos story is > > >>> > >> > >> > much more > > >>> > >> > >> > vivid > > >>> > >> > >> > than the "God created (x) and saw it was good" story. > > That's > > >>> > >> > >> > true. But > > >>> > >> > >> > the > > >>> > >> > >> > children are less likely to have bad dreams at night. Which > > >>> > >> > >> > is really > > >>> > >> > >> > good. > > > >>> > >> > >> > Sorry, Allan, I got carried away. What were you talking > > >>> > >> > >> > about? > > > >>> > >> > >> > 2012/12/4 Allan H <[email protected]> > > > >>> > >> > >> >> a series of creation is at best a wild guess with no > > >>> > >> > >> >> supporting > > >>> > >> > >> >> evidence.. > > >>> > >> > >> >> Allan > > > >>> > >> > >> >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 4:42 PM, RP Singh < > > [email protected]> > > >>> > >> > >> >> wrote: > > >>> > >> > >> >> > You can pinpoint the beginning of this universe but not > > >>> > >> > >> >> > that of > > >>> > >> > >> >> > Creation with its series of universes. > > > >>> > >> > >> >> > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Allan H > > >>> > >> > >> >> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> > >> > >> >> >> That is not true the beginning can be pretty much > > >>> > >> > >> >> >> pinpointed .. as > > >>> > >> > >> >> >> for > > >>> > >> > >> >> >> parallel universes that is just a wild guess with > > nothing > > >>> > >> > >> >> >> to support > > >>> > >> > >> >> >> the > > >>> > >> > >> >> >> other than it sounds good. There is more evidence > > >>> > >> > >> >> >> supporting the > > >>> > >> > >> >> >> spiritual > > >>> > >> > >> >> >> realm than parallel universes > > >>> > >> > >> >> >> Allan > > > >>> > >> > >> >> >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light > > > >>> > >> > >> >> >> On Dec 4, > > ... > > read more » --
