Martin Luther King Jr. called for a revolution of conscience. Grace Lee Boggs, in the end, calls for a revolution of spirit. John Lennon called for a revolution of the mind. I find myself in agreement with all of these. http://youtu.be/SMEgGGnZ43Y
On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:33:53 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote: > > Seek the narrow path which few choose to follow. > > > Revolution is about change, the media loves the violent variety as do the > politicians & weapons manufactures. No one in power wants real change. > > The Atlantic ocean is also available for a revolutionary micro-nation > formation. We are talking revolution are we not? Questions come to creating > a homeland, a self sustaining community with the ability to expand, feeding > the population, international trade. It seems to me the easiest cover that > would essentially go unnoticed would be cleaning up the ocean gyres. > Extremely large ocean barges are available .. It would not be difficult to > create vertical wind turbines with reef levels for handling higher winds > speeds, hydroponics for food supply and raising fish for commercial trade. > If you look at the skycat airship you have a simple potential freighter.. > Tinnen out of the box. > If you want revolution why not do it under the radar? > > Allan > Living Soul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Molly <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 1:06 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Religion as rebellion > > Religion could not break the spell because, like reason, it is steeped in > duality. Nothing is smashed with a non dual viewpoint, all is included, but > opposition falls away and with it, what we perceive to be fascists. I > agree with your observation that much of this is fed like pablum, in > expensive new age emperors clothing. Even that raises the questions for > those who have never considered them. All just sign posts along the road. > When your step creates the path, you may actually be on the path. Don't > expect to see a crowd around you. > > On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:00:58 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >> >> That would be worth believing in Allan. It's hard to work out what >> rebellion is. I might break into the Freeze art sales event in London and >> smash up one of Facil's exhibits in the first of my series of Vandal Art. >> This might, in fact, merely be a marketing prank to draw attention to the >> Facilitator and increase the price of his stuff. >> >> I've been looking into a weeding robot of late. Brilliant tech that >> embodies the very hard, back-breaking work that requires more training than >> most might think for humans to do it. It's hard to retain labour for such >> tasks in western agriculture, so the work groups tend to need expensive >> training every year. The real rebellion may come when we realise most >> financial and management jobs are already embodied in technology - at which >> point we might see the end of the current work ethic. >> >> The danger with higher plane thinking-achievement might be described as >> fascist idolatry - something I also feel on god as authority. I'm not much >> convinced by 'introspection to the light' - feels like 'Chicken Soup for >> the Soul' too often. Yet doubt easily becomes another certainty. I'm for >> some kind of smash up, but this really is just vandalism unless we really >> try to bring something better into place. Descartes had to say that a >> beneficent god would take care of us while we did radical evaluation - the >> Inquisition was on his back (in letters to mates he would point to what >> happened to Galileo and that he would fare worse as a Frenchman). The >> current Inquisition is, of course, economics. >> >> Christianity (before its modern descent to Xtianity) once seriously >> considered whether Christ owned the clothes he wore (Wyclif), a very >> radical question - though even this was subject to political machination. >> Plastic factories sourcing waste material from the Pacific are some way >> off. What of our ideology of private ownership when a bunch of well-armed >> aliens turn up and tell us they built the planet? >> >> Religion and Reason both give us the problem of authority and potential >> delusion. Who now would go on the streets as wave a flag for Hitler, the >> shell-shocked lunatic? People did and we may be doing something similar >> now. Could religion break the spell? >> >> On Tuesday, 14 October 2014 21:27:04 UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote: >>> >>> I do think there is a true revolution occurring as we right. Creating a >>> new direction. I think they will form small inter connected ¿internet? >>> Working together for common good. There probably will be totally self >>> sustaining probably cleaning up the ocean waste working at balancing the >>> eco systems. >>> >>> Allan >>> Living Soul >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 10:09 PM >>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Religion as rebellion >>> >>> Deconstruction and reconstruction have to go hand in hand - if we have >>> to call them such at all. One of the rebellions I want to see is in our >>> literature. Though art can descend to the likes of London's 'Freeze' art >>> sales (kitsch rules), it has that anything goes potential. Literature is >>> very formulaic at the moment, mostly copies of copies of a forgotten >>> original - much like politics. I'm with Allan on the doing. >>> >>> On Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:49:31 UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>> >>>> You are right religion is the basic foundation including all the >>>> superstitions. The source of beliefs really does not matter. At this point >>>> for the greatest majority of the world's people that is what they want. >>>> Level 1 believe follow the rules. Level 2 people become connected and >>>> aware others presence of a power greater than you are. >>>> >>>> How a person responds to the reality of the world in which they live >>>> determines they spiritual development. Often times people say one thing >>>> then do another. It is the actions that carry weight. What you believe >>>> longer matters. Atheism is a valid spiritual view point. >>>> >>>> Allan >>>> A Living Soul >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Molly <[email protected]> >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Sent: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 5:52 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Religion as rebellion >>>> >>>> I wouldn't go so far as to say we are killing the planet, or be so bold >>>> as to blame one thing like fossil fuel usage on climate change, but I do >>>> think Naomi has been swept along by a collective movement away from top >>>> down/bottom up change to something much more integrated. Human evolution >>>> becoming human being. These surges of collective movements all over the >>>> world, whether in China or Korea or Italy or New York, occurring for >>>> various "reasons" are like a pulse through our collective blood stream. >>>> Have they always been, and we are only now aware of all of them because >>>> of >>>> technology - or are there more than ever? Is the pulse accelerating? In >>>> my view, our ability to recognize global happenings through technology >>>> expands our consciousness. But consciousness is. It doesn't evolve or >>>> change. We only feel that it does because we apply mental constructs to >>>> what we recognize in order to analyze, understand and communicate. Here is >>>> the ought from is. Here, I think, the deconstruction begins. >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 10:24:12 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I like the idea in much the same way Molly, perhaps especially that of >>>>> the dross falling away (perhaps from my short time in foundry work!). >>>>> Current physics leaves us with 96% 'dark' - something (almost) beyond >>>>> our >>>>> senses and geometry, but still works such miracles as television, with >>>>> relativity telling us such mundane stuff as how a lead acid battery >>>>> produces far more energy than we'd expect from standard chemistry. This >>>>> working in action with incomplete and possibly wrong theory in our best >>>>> areas is much neglected. We know very little of social organisation >>>>> (despite reams of literature) and the role of 'constructors' across >>>>> science >>>>> and society. What we do know is generally swamped by ignorance and the >>>>> need to earn a crust in existing social order. I have to say the >>>>> literature is not a 'how to manual'. >>>>> >>>>> Grace asks ' are we prepared to develop a whole new form of solidarity >>>>> economics emphasizing sustainability, mutuality, and local >>>>> self-reliance?' >>>>> Scientists have written on this for more than a century and it comes to >>>>> a >>>>> moral head in climate change, pollution and the cosmology of our plight >>>>> (needs to leave the planet over time, be prepared for collisions). The >>>>> facts have me convinced one can derive an ought from an is. Naomi >>>>> Klein's >>>>> 'This Changes Everything' has a lot of the facts. The rebellious turn >>>>> for >>>>> me would be religion free of what Tom Paine complained of (superstition), >>>>> most notably inflicted on us now through pseudo-science like economics >>>>> (highly religious in many senses including nine versions, all wrong) >>>>> riddled with superstition and void of spiritual thought experiment and >>>>> experience (data in a sense of what it could be to be human or >>>>> post-human). >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, 14 October 2014 14:20:06 UTC+1, Molly wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> You really cover the gamut here, Neil, going round and round the nut. >>>>>> Rebellion has been on my mind too lately, as one of the great >>>>>> Detroiters, >>>>>> Grace Lee Boggs, lays in hospice. She spent her adult life spanning 8 >>>>>> decades organizing social activism locally in Detroit and nationally for >>>>>> many movements, civil rights and women's rights among them. I was >>>>>> excited >>>>>> to receive an award last month because she was on the agenda to receive >>>>>> a >>>>>> lifetime achievement award also but she sent a representative and her >>>>>> announcement came shortly afterward. Her story is quite interesting the >>>>>> deeper one digs into it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Toward the end of her life she leaned less toward civil disobedience >>>>>> and more toward spiritual coherence of groups, actively and quietly >>>>>> leading >>>>>> local groups to greater organization and standards of living. For me, >>>>>> her >>>>>> movement to peaceful rebellion was key as I have always moved thusly >>>>>> when >>>>>> called to do so. Working "with" not against in a rebellion means >>>>>> organizing >>>>>> through the deconstruction, seeing past the chaos and predatory >>>>>> participants that inevitably enter into the fray. Moving in spirit >>>>>> during >>>>>> rebellion gets past the right and wrong and into an vision of peak >>>>>> organization for the group. The movement is movement toward the vision >>>>>> for >>>>>> everyone. A great deal of rubbish falls away in the process. >>>>>> >>>>>> From my view, religion supports individuals and groups by lending a >>>>>> structure to the seeking, until seeking is no longer necessary. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 7:30:31 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The 'Putinography' was subject to ridicule on our satirical show >>>>>>> 'Have I Got News For You'. I have never been able to feel, say, Allan >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> Molly's religion or god, though I'm not really atheist, even if that's >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> answer I'd give on a survey. I don't get art with, say, Facil's eye >>>>>>> either, and in science and maths know I don't visualise well but do >>>>>>> sense >>>>>>> patterns and have an almost religious demand for evidence - to the >>>>>>> extent >>>>>>> I'd say there is almost none in our courtrooms or what passes for >>>>>>> public >>>>>>> scrutiny. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rebellion interests me firstly in the sense of its existence before >>>>>>> the human mind. Even ants 'rebel' against their captors, killing their >>>>>>> young, sometimes fighting against superior weapons technology (most >>>>>>> slavers >>>>>>> have mandibles like swords). The rebellion is not about freedom for >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> individual ants but their species. The rebels will die, but their >>>>>>> species >>>>>>> may prosper from the reduced slaving population. We tend to metaphors >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> 'co-evolution' and 'arms' races' in biology, but these are inadequate, >>>>>>> transferring the all-too-human. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Religion, stripped of its institutionalism and rationalisation, >>>>>>> seems a rebellion to peace and in and against nature at the same time. >>>>>>> It >>>>>>> is against self whilst also self-development. The language is almost >>>>>>> impossible as we have barely learned the ambiguity and parochiality of >>>>>>> language and are confused on originality. Mimicry is everywhere in >>>>>>> nature >>>>>>> - ants pretending to be spiders, spiders and beetles pretending to be >>>>>>> ants >>>>>>> - politicians pretending to be other than puppets of shadow control. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, 13 October 2014 19:51:39 UTC+1, facilitator wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I believe some of this. However I deviate in that I believe >>>>>>>> churches are for the individual to hide among or be counted in the >>>>>>>> group. >>>>>>>> This is even more true of the priest, Rabbi, Imam, etc. Saying they >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> for the masses requires a much wider brush that I can't paint >>>>>>>> liberally >>>>>>>> with. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, October 13, 2014 12:27:43 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Churches are for basically for the masses .. There is a basic need >>>>>>>>> to believe or explain the unknown. Transition into spirituality does >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> take much. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Common religious views are a starting point from which to build >>>>>>>>> ones spiritual view and experience. Within Catholicism there are >>>>>>>>> basically >>>>>>>>> 3 levels of spirituality. The first level , believe God is real go to >>>>>>>>> church follow the rules. The second level is where people become >>>>>>>>> aware of >>>>>>>>> the presence of God, with him becoming a major part of their lives, >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> experiences like Molly spoke of not being uncommon. Theses >>>>>>>>> experiences >>>>>>>>> being a driving force. The Third level the roll of the church changes >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> spiritual guide to one of an observer and scribe. At this level these >>>>>>>>> people are no longer the ' churches ' problem but that of God. The >>>>>>>>> official >>>>>>>>> church very much likes these people as part of the church, providing >>>>>>>>> assistance when possible. >>>>>>>>> Many centuries of observation allows the church to easily >>>>>>>>> recognize the different levels. It really is an interesting source >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> study. >>>>>>>>> The English are among the greatest slavers in the world.. Followed >>>>>>>>> closely by islam. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Allan >>>>>>>>> Living Soul >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Religion as rebellion >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've done much of the magic in the secret society bit (in what was >>>>>>>>> once Zaire). My friend (a tribal chief) and I were able to repeat >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> magic in my university office. Sadly, I get rather the reverse >>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>> of Molly in our churches. Jean-Claude was a thorough-going Marxist, >>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>> detested the Lenin-Mao lines. I tend to anarchist-mutualism myself >>>>>>>>> and am >>>>>>>>> never sure about Molly's higher plane - my sense is it emerges from >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> material conditions of possibility. Sleeping near ants is not >>>>>>>>> recommended. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was thinking of the potentials of religion to free us from >>>>>>>>> biological structuration, perhaps in the sense of a poison-cure. It >>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>> both higher plane experience and chronic rationalisation - the >>>>>>>>> latter, say, >>>>>>>>> in jihad, crusades and the ant-like 'let's kill the Yazidi and steal >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> women' (or Numbers 31). Many of our terms have this pharmikon >>>>>>>>> status, >>>>>>>>> though we allow them to dominate in 'good' form - education, >>>>>>>>> government, >>>>>>>>> freedom ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> John Brown is often presented as a deluded religionist, but at >>>>>>>>> least wasn't talking western philosophy at the top table of a slave >>>>>>>>> economy. Religion these days seems silent on material matters. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, 13 October 2014 14:16:26 UTC+1, Molly wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I suppose that it does provide a place to hide in community from >>>>>>>>>> the mundane and economic realities of the lower and middle classes >>>>>>>>>> if one >>>>>>>>>> is necessary. I've always found a church community to provide its >>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>> cultural limitations based on what all human groups offer, and not >>>>>>>>>> much >>>>>>>>>> insight into faith or support in crisis of faith. At the head of >>>>>>>>>> each >>>>>>>>>> church is a human being, struggling as we all do to make sense of it >>>>>>>>>> all. >>>>>>>>>> The tone of this culture depends invariable on the tone of the >>>>>>>>>> leader and >>>>>>>>>> they deviate more or less from the greater church dictates. Mass >>>>>>>>>> itself is >>>>>>>>>> little more than a ritual although once understood as a process to >>>>>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>> consciousness, can take you there, I've experienced it, and not just >>>>>>>>>> in a >>>>>>>>>> Catholic mass. Participating tribal ritual drumming can lead to >>>>>>>>>> ecstasies. >>>>>>>>>> Much if not all of this is lost on most congregations, in my >>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 13, 2014 7:03:02 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Many of our terms for freedom have religious origin in the rough >>>>>>>>>>> phrase 'freedom from debt' - more and much wider than than Xtian >>>>>>>>>>> kicking >>>>>>>>>>> over the tables of the money-lenders. There have been many debt >>>>>>>>>>> jubilees >>>>>>>>>>> in history, often on the death of a 'king'. Debt slavery is and >>>>>>>>>>> has been >>>>>>>>>>> much wider in human communities than most seem to know. We are not >>>>>>>>>>> widely >>>>>>>>>>> informed on biology and anthropology in this regard. Religion can >>>>>>>>>>> raise >>>>>>>>>>> the best and worst in us. Much of it raises the notion of >>>>>>>>>>> adherents as >>>>>>>>>>> some kind of chosen people, sometimes restricted to the in-group >>>>>>>>>>> blood >>>>>>>>>>> line. The Yazidi are such an example. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chimps seem to have a form of 'religion' connected with the >>>>>>>>>>> seasons - as many of our belief systems. I saw footage of some >>>>>>>>>>> southeast >>>>>>>>>>> Asian spiders this morning - they lay eggs in a central tower >>>>>>>>>>> surrounded by >>>>>>>>>>> a henge - immediately bringing Stonehenge to my mind, though they >>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>> hack stones to shape. Religion raises Facil's 'we might both (all) >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> wrong' phrase to my mind, something often missing in our argument >>>>>>>>>>> despite >>>>>>>>>>> knowledge that we can make many equally powerful arguments about >>>>>>>>>>> the same >>>>>>>>>>> stuff (Sextus Empiricus). To judge between arguments we need >>>>>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>>>> mystical (religious). I say this as a scientist knowing magic >>>>>>>>>>> wands don't >>>>>>>>>>> work. Religion could be rebellion, a postmodern moment, >>>>>>>>>>> oversimplifying to >>>>>>>>>>> the extreme, of incredulity towards metanarratives like government, >>>>>>>>>>> law and >>>>>>>>>>> economics - a dreamtime against material and spiritual debt-rules. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Black holes have recently become 'grey', but dreamtime might >>>>>>>>>>> challenge the geometry we use. Global warming and much else on >>>>>>>>>>> pollution >>>>>>>>>>> challenges us to think 'This Changes Everything' (Naomi Klein) - >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> economics of 'we can never afford to do the right things' in my >>>>>>>>>>> view. So >>>>>>>>>>> what does religion offer on the postmodern moment of rebellion? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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