Not where the challenge lies for me.

On Monday, February 23, 2015 at 12:13:37 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote:
>
> I don't see the ways Molly uses to achieve inner peace, but have my own 
> methods which can easily be tried by everyone. Whatever you experience lay 
> it at the door of God, and whatever you do lay that also at the door of 
> God. The truth is that God or Nature is primarily responsible for 
> everything. If you do this it is easier to achieve inner peace as feelings 
> of arrogance and depression are replaced by a calmness of mind. When the 
> mind is calm the best ideas come to a person and logic works better, but , 
> of course, you can do this only if you believe in absolute bondage.
>
> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:30 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> That's rather to individualistic for me Molly - though I don't disagree 
>> with the spirit of it, with reservations about the possibility this could 
>> be a construction of govern-mentality in the subjective.  
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, February 22, 2015 at 6:35:28 PM UTC, Molly wrote:
>>>
>>> Relating through inner peace does require a different skill set, and can 
>>> upset everything we have learned about people (and some of what we know of 
>>> ourselves.) As daunting as a whole new operating system that requires 
>>> learning all new settings. Once you get through it, you find that people 
>>> respond differently to you in the same circumstance. The change is in you, 
>>> not others or the world.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, February 22, 2015 at 1:01:17 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Some minds were so troubled, suicide was the option on failure to 
>>>> resolve difficult problems (Bolzman supposedly etc).  Skepticism lets us 
>>>> see things might be different (obviously in very real ways on things as 
>>>> atoms or whatever else they divide up as, still leaving what might be 
>>>> important to find), but leaves certainty in a quandary, including 
>>>> certainty 
>>>> about skepticism.  Logics fail to escape this quandary too, though we 
>>>> don't 
>>>> use them in practice to reach certainty - more to know what pathways work 
>>>> and those that don't.  There may be no gods, yet we can also suppose 
>>>> worlds 
>>>> with them and wonder which we think would be better.
>>>>
>>>> Mostly RP, we think theories arise in intuition and a lot of early 
>>>> decisions we make on approximation, choice of mathematical systems, 
>>>> measurement and separating facts from fairy stories - but this too tends 
>>>> to 
>>>> be philosophical work done after the fact.  Any purity of origin is 
>>>> disputable rather than logical.  But it is all much to do with recognising 
>>>> different ways to do things and respect for that difference.  Logical and 
>>>> mathematical systems all seem to have an 'outside' that the inner 
>>>> consistency relies on.
>>>>
>>>> Molly's quiet mind is something of an aspiration.  I don't see the 
>>>> switch the car off metaphor as mind seems very active when we think it's 
>>>> switched off because we have lost awareness.  I am more 'RP' on this in 
>>>> that we need security.  Much mind for me is external and embodied in the 
>>>> social-technological.
>>>>
>>>> Presence, as Allan has just said, is often ineffable.  It is very 
>>>> difficult to relate through inner peace too.
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, February 22, 2015 at 11:57:09 AM UTC, Molly wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with Neil's statement that it is sometimes hard to see beyond 
>>>>> the apparent horror of the presence manifest. Just as it is hard to not 
>>>>> be 
>>>>> distracted by the perceived beauty. Somewhere in there, we get caught up 
>>>>> in 
>>>>> the mental gymnastics of judgment and logic. Life to me, is more peaceful 
>>>>> and joyful if I can suspend all of that. I don't leave my car running 
>>>>> when 
>>>>> I don't need to use it.Yet my car is an integral part of my life. I've 
>>>>> found my mind to be much the same, an important mechanism that if I keep 
>>>>> it 
>>>>> well maintained and stored, is there and running at peak operational 
>>>>> capacity when needed. That presence can be experienced much more 
>>>>> profoundly 
>>>>> with a quiet mind, IMHO
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, February 22, 2015 at 6:20:57 AM UTC-5, Allan Heretic wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Started working on a reply..   But like somethings I write they just 
>>>>>> disappear and I can't  explain it.. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neil is very correct when he is saying  he feels a presence.  When I 
>>>>>> reglect upon my personal experiences what I am experience it is a 
>>>>>> presence 
>>>>>> that I am interacting with.. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you Neil for the very deep insight. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]>
>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]>
>>>>>> Sent: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 3:53 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: The religious atheist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Creation is not a work of hand but will , if something manifests and 
>>>>>> evolves it is the work of will, not necessarily a will like ours and not 
>>>>>> by 
>>>>>> a conscious being like us but by the Being which scientists are 
>>>>>> conjecturing as something before the big bang , the cause of it. To me 
>>>>>> that 
>>>>>> Something is God as that is the origin of the universe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 9:47 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Big bang is not necessarily a creation event RP.  God from logic?  I 
>>>>>>> prefer the ghost buster business plan.  I feel some presence is all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 21, 2015 at 4:06:12 PM UTC, RP Singh wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The conclusion that it exists is a product of logic, Life had to 
>>>>>>>> come out of something and what better than the One. It is logical to 
>>>>>>>> believe that all come out of One and not the many.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 9:17 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> First you said it was hiding behind the many, now you are saying 
>>>>>>>>> it is above all. May I ask what it is that makes you so sure it 
>>>>>>>>> exists, if 
>>>>>>>>> the mapping is so complicated? How do we know we are not falling for 
>>>>>>>>> a 
>>>>>>>>> ghost buster business model?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag, 21. Februar 2015 schrieb RP Singh <[email protected]>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The One is not present in the past , present and the future , 
>>>>>>>>>> rather it is time , past , present and future which is preent in the 
>>>>>>>>>> One. 
>>>>>>>>>> The One is above time as it is above all.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 7:38 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why should that One have the need to hide behind the many, when 
>>>>>>>>>>> ever present in past, present and future? I would understand if it 
>>>>>>>>>>> wants to 
>>>>>>>>>>> hide its shadows there behind the Big Bang, but then we should help 
>>>>>>>>>>> the One 
>>>>>>>>>>> to find its way out there! Time is now.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag, 21. Februar 2015 schrieb RP Singh <[email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>> >:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The entire universe emanated from something following the big 
>>>>>>>>>>>> bang , but it cannot be said to be that something rather it is the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> something which is behind the universe. So the One behind the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> many. Now all 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the individuals have come from that something but cannot be said 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> something. Again as all come from that something they are ever 
>>>>>>>>>>>> present in 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that, and all past , present and future is just history abiding in 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 6:59 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The One but the many, the many but the One - does not sound 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing in my ears. Allan, what do you say?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag, 21. Februar 2015 schrieb RP Singh <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gabby , the logic is that One is behind the many , but not the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many. The individual is just a fragment or rather an emanation 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the One , 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but not the One. It is the One which is the repository of all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where the infinite beings , the limitless creation, is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unmanifest and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become manifest when their time comes. Theoretically as all that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or will be is there in the unmanifest any thing in the past or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the future can be known by touching that source. The past, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present or the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future is all history as it always exists in the One.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 4:03 PM, gabbydott <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, your spell checker is doing a good job, Allan! :) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The compass needle is in balance. Back in balance. As this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be your orientational pattern: "bring back information 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> totality of all knowledge". God being the representative of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge" and therefore greater than the individual knowledge. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did I get 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that right so far? What leaves me wondering is, how does that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding match with the One&theMany understanding, which 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really draw the line between the individual and the All, but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different perspectives as the cause for you seeing God as being 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> greater. Or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let me ask differently, how much would you say is the soul the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individual 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> representative of the totality of all knowledge? And in how 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much is the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soul equipped with its own compass needle from there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag, 21. Februar 2015 schrieb :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Was thinking about the old testament. Whati don't  like 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about it is the inaccurate descriptions. Or outright lies but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what van you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expect from a group of people trying to put themselves above 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humanity. I can relate to some of what is recorded because 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar things 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have occurred to me,  which leaves me wondering what really 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went on. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The story of creation is fasinating especially if you pitch 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thr time scale and look it as stages..  In its own right it ts 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simplified  version of the big bsng theory told to a group of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> herders/hunter gathers explaining their origin.. Similar in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspects to the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stories of how the navajo emerhed on this earth. Both are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amazingly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accurate.  Personally in my views I tend to be a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transendentlist believing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that one can actually cross the time/space barrier to bring 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information from the totality of all knowledge (which is ever 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expanding and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not stagnant)  because of my understanding of a being greater 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than myself 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which I commonly refer to as God. This being helps me retrieve 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information in a format you can understand. To me there is a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> totality of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge all contained with a being I refer to as God. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>

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