Some minds were so troubled, suicide was the option on failure to resolve difficult problems (Bolzman supposedly etc). Skepticism lets us see things might be different (obviously in very real ways on things as atoms or whatever else they divide up as, still leaving what might be important to find), but leaves certainty in a quandary, including certainty about skepticism. Logics fail to escape this quandary too, though we don't use them in practice to reach certainty - more to know what pathways work and those that don't. There may be no gods, yet we can also suppose worlds with them and wonder which we think would be better.
Mostly RP, we think theories arise in intuition and a lot of early decisions we make on approximation, choice of mathematical systems, measurement and separating facts from fairy stories - but this too tends to be philosophical work done after the fact. Any purity of origin is disputable rather than logical. But it is all much to do with recognising different ways to do things and respect for that difference. Logical and mathematical systems all seem to have an 'outside' that the inner consistency relies on. Molly's quiet mind is something of an aspiration. I don't see the switch the car off metaphor as mind seems very active when we think it's switched off because we have lost awareness. I am more 'RP' on this in that we need security. Much mind for me is external and embodied in the social-technological. Presence, as Allan has just said, is often ineffable. It is very difficult to relate through inner peace too. On Sunday, February 22, 2015 at 11:57:09 AM UTC, Molly wrote: > > I agree with Neil's statement that it is sometimes hard to see beyond the > apparent horror of the presence manifest. Just as it is hard to not be > distracted by the perceived beauty. Somewhere in there, we get caught up in > the mental gymnastics of judgment and logic. Life to me, is more peaceful > and joyful if I can suspend all of that. I don't leave my car running when > I don't need to use it.Yet my car is an integral part of my life. I've > found my mind to be much the same, an important mechanism that if I keep it > well maintained and stored, is there and running at peak operational > capacity when needed. That presence can be experienced much more profoundly > with a quiet mind, IMHO > > On Sunday, February 22, 2015 at 6:20:57 AM UTC-5, Allan Heretic wrote: >> >> Started working on a reply.. But like somethings I write they just >> disappear and I can't explain it.. >> >> Neil is very correct when he is saying he feels a presence. When I >> reglect upon my personal experiences what I am experience it is a presence >> that I am interacting with.. >> >> Thank you Neil for the very deep insight. >> >> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >> Sent: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 3:53 AM >> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: The religious atheist >> >> Creation is not a work of hand but will , if something manifests and >> evolves it is the work of will, not necessarily a will like ours and not by >> a conscious being like us but by the Being which scientists are >> conjecturing as something before the big bang , the cause of it. To me that >> Something is God as that is the origin of the universe. >> >> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 9:47 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Big bang is not necessarily a creation event RP. God from logic? I >>> prefer the ghost buster business plan. I feel some presence is all. >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, February 21, 2015 at 4:06:12 PM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>> >>>> The conclusion that it exists is a product of logic, Life had to come >>>> out of something and what better than the One. It is logical to believe >>>> that all come out of One and not the many. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 9:17 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> First you said it was hiding behind the many, now you are saying it is >>>>> above all. May I ask what it is that makes you so sure it exists, if the >>>>> mapping is so complicated? How do we know we are not falling for a ghost >>>>> buster business model? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Am Samstag, 21. Februar 2015 schrieb RP Singh <[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>>> The One is not present in the past , present and the future , rather >>>>>> it is time , past , present and future which is preent in the One. The >>>>>> One >>>>>> is above time as it is above all. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 7:38 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Why should that One have the need to hide behind the many, when ever >>>>>>> present in past, present and future? I would understand if it wants to >>>>>>> hide >>>>>>> its shadows there behind the Big Bang, but then we should help the One >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> find its way out there! Time is now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am Samstag, 21. Februar 2015 schrieb RP Singh <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The entire universe emanated from something following the big bang >>>>>>>> , but it cannot be said to be that something rather it is the >>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>> which is behind the universe. So the One behind the many. Now all the >>>>>>>> individuals have come from that something but cannot be said to be >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> something. Again as all come from that something they are ever present >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> that, and all past , present and future is just history abiding in >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> something. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 6:59 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The One but the many, the many but the One - does not sound >>>>>>>>> convincing in my ears. Allan, what do you say? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Am Samstag, 21. Februar 2015 schrieb RP Singh <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Gabby , the logic is that One is behind the many , but not the >>>>>>>>>> many. The individual is just a fragment or rather an emanation of >>>>>>>>>> the One , >>>>>>>>>> but not the One. It is the One which is the repository of all >>>>>>>>>> knowledge >>>>>>>>>> where the infinite beings , the limitless creation, is unmanifest >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> become manifest when their time comes. Theoretically as all that has >>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>> or will be is there in the unmanifest any thing in the past or >>>>>>>>>> anything in >>>>>>>>>> the future can be known by touching that source. The past, present >>>>>>>>>> or the >>>>>>>>>> future is all history as it always exists in the One. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 4:03 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hey, your spell checker is doing a good job, Allan! :) Thanks. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The compass needle is in balance. Back in balance. As this seems >>>>>>>>>>> to be your orientational pattern: "bring back information from the >>>>>>>>>>> totality >>>>>>>>>>> of all knowledge". God being the representative of the "all >>>>>>>>>>> knowledge" and >>>>>>>>>>> therefore greater than the individual knowledge. Did I get that >>>>>>>>>>> right so >>>>>>>>>>> far? What leaves me wondering is, how does that understanding match >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> the One&theMany understanding, which would not really draw the line >>>>>>>>>>> between >>>>>>>>>>> the individual and the All, but see the different perspectives as >>>>>>>>>>> the cause >>>>>>>>>>> for you seeing God as being greater. Or let me ask differently, how >>>>>>>>>>> much >>>>>>>>>>> would you say is the soul the individual representative of the >>>>>>>>>>> totality of >>>>>>>>>>> all knowledge? And in how much is the soul equipped with its own >>>>>>>>>>> compass >>>>>>>>>>> needle from there? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag, 21. Februar 2015 schrieb : >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Was thinking about the old testament. Whati don't like about >>>>>>>>>>>> it is the inaccurate descriptions. Or outright lies but what van >>>>>>>>>>>> you expect >>>>>>>>>>>> from a group of people trying to put themselves above the rest of >>>>>>>>>>>> humanity. >>>>>>>>>>>> I can relate to some of what is recorded because similar things >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> occurred to me, which leaves me wondering what really went on. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The story of creation is fasinating especially if you pitch thr >>>>>>>>>>>> time scale and look it as stages.. In its own right it ts a >>>>>>>>>>>> simplified >>>>>>>>>>>> version of the big bsng theory told to a group of herders/hunter >>>>>>>>>>>> gathers >>>>>>>>>>>> explaining their origin.. Similar in aspects to the stories of how >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> navajo emerhed on this earth. Both are amazingly accurate. >>>>>>>>>>>> Personally in >>>>>>>>>>>> my views I tend to be a transendentlist believing that one can >>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>>>>> cross the time/space barrier to bring back information from the >>>>>>>>>>>> totality of >>>>>>>>>>>> all knowledge (which is ever expanding and not stagnant) because >>>>>>>>>>>> of my >>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of a being greater than myself which I commonly >>>>>>>>>>>> refer to as >>>>>>>>>>>> God. This being helps me retrieve new information in a format you >>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>> understand. To me there is a totality of knowledge all contained >>>>>>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>>>> being I refer to as God. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic >>>>>>>>>>>> in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/yDzn3Mhp_8I/ >>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an >>>>>>>>>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic >>>>>>>>>> in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/yDzn3Mhp_8I/ >>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email >>>>>>>>>> to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>>> the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ >>>>>>>> topic/minds-eye/yDzn3Mhp_8I/unsubscribe. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>> the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ >>>>>> topic/minds-eye/yDzn3Mhp_8I/unsubscribe. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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