I don't think you are doing the split correctly. For example, design of computer languages has nothing to do with traditional software engineering, and is really part of the (short!) tradition of computer science. Larry Wall of Perl was a linguist, Guido Van Rossum of Python comes from a Math/CS background, not SE. I think language domain is definitely in the proper domain of Math/CS, and not SE. I think that computer science is to software engineering as Physics is to Engineering... less practical in principle, but in the case of CS just as practical but in different ways.
Also, I never think of engineers as creative types (not precluding that there cannot be creative engineers, merely describing their curriculum) They are the ones who rein in the creativity to make stuff work, hopefully on budget. I think building new software also needs ''Architect'' / "Design" oriented people, but not what is currently called Architects. I'm not sure what they are, but I'm pretty sure that engineering does not provide any useful background for the creative aspects of software building. I don't think there is a set group that has this sort of knowledge. Writing code is like writing a book. Not everyone is Tolstoy, but Tolstoy did not go to school to get certified as a Novelist either. Is having a degree in literature a pre-requisite for writing a novel? It just does not sound right. On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 9:03 PM, Yves Legault <[email protected] > wrote: > Engineers are expected to lead projects of sometime very large scale. > Therefore, the project management side including accounting and other > related matters are far more advanced within their curriculum. > Being an experienced electronic technician, I know I can discuss with an > engineer up to a certain point, but there are things I do not know... And I > generally have the capability to understand them when explained. > > I have always seen engineers to be more knowledgeable in theoretical work > and management functions. > I have always seen technicians to be more knowledgeable in practical work > and day to day operation. > > This does not prevent one to excel in the other's realm, although, I > understand this to be an exception. > However, we do have technologists that do bridge the gap between > technicians and engineers. > > In regard to the software field of activity, It must be clear that the so > called "computer science" is a very young science. > Many do regard Babage's Analytical Engine as being probably the first > programmable computer, as demonstrated by Lovelace in 1843. > > I understand that "computer science" should include both hardware and > software sides in his definition. > For hardware, there are engineers that work at developing chips that are > more and more powerful and faster bits cruncher. > For software, there are engineers that work at developing languages that > are more and more powerful and easier at realizing programmer's will. > > I may be out in the field, But my current opinion is the following: > > - For a person to create a programming language, having an engineer's > degree should be considered very helpful. Knowledge of algorithms and > advanced mathematics is definitely a plus. > - For a person to program tasks in any computer language, an engineer > degree should be considered optional. One has to keep in mind that the task > to be program might very well have been defined by an engineer. > > How about someone defining a new sorting algorithm in C or Pascal? This is > awfully close to an engineer field of work. > How about someone doing coding according to predefined requirements? This > is awfully close to a technician's field of work. > It is quite hard to make a line in the sand and state that neither > technicians nor engineers can cross it. > > Now... What if the act of creation is reserved to engineers? > If writing software is an act of creation, then anyone writing a piece of > software is an engineer. > Personally, creating a new programming language should be considered > engineering work. > Creating a piece of software using an existing programming language should > be considered technical work. > > Generally speaking, engineers are expected to be able to start doing their > work on a white page. > > Generally speaking, technicians are expected to use documentation, > schematics and tools in order to get things done. > This is what I call "using existing building blocks". > It is true that, from time to time, they too can create something new out > of assembling those block in an way that was not foreseen by the engineers. > So it is also with programmers.They too are "using existing blocks". That > does not turn programmers into engineers! > > Well, in the end, it seems it is the social responsibility that can be > bestowed on someone that makes him an engineer or a technician. > And that ability is generally recognized by a certificate, a diploma or a > degree. > It is called social recognition. > > For an engineer, there is an "oath" or two attached with the practice of > their profession. > There is no such thing for a technician. > I currently do not know if there is an oath for a technologist. > > YLL > > > Le mercredi 21 octobre 2015 à 12:00 -0400, [email protected] > a écrit : > > Send mlug mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://listes.koumbit.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-listserv.mlug.ca > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of mlug digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Software engineering and politics (was: North America > Fedora LUG) (Patricia Campbell) > 2. Re: Software engineering and politics (was: North America > Fedora LUG) (Nelson Asinowski) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:49:41 -0400 > From: Patricia Campbell <[email protected]> > To: Montreal Linux Users Group <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [MLUG] Software engineering and politics (was: North > America Fedora LUG) > Message-ID: > <cagwhzbh-fpo4qfvw5tnfbxrh7nlvan9nau+_qsj_fb7ao9z...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > They are two different disciplines. Engineering has been trying to > coop Computer Science for ages. Often job titles for developers use > the title Software Engineer but don't require an engineering degree. > > I am not sure where this "fight" will go but I am not sure how they > will gain more influence. Right now there are not enough people to > fill the ICT jobs. The universities will not close down their > Computer Science departments. > > A software engineering degree tends to focus more on planning and > management than do pure CS degrees. > > Anyone else have thoughts on this ? > > > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Stefan Monnier > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> CGI), and two large technical parks dedicated to software engineering. > >> ETS is a university dedicated to software Engineering. > > > > Just to clarify: the Quebec Order of Engineers (a professional > > association with a lot of money and political clout) wants to take > > control of everything that has to do with IT or CS in Quebec (so as to > > gain yet more influence). > > > > For that reason, they try and convince everyone that all of IT and CS > > falls within the scope of "software engineering". > > > > In most of the rest of the world, software engineering is just one > > sub-field of computer science. > > > > > > Stefan > > _______________________________________________ > > mlug mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://listes.koumbit.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-listserv.mlug.ca > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mlug mailing list > [email protected] > https://listes.koumbit.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-listserv.mlug.ca > >
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