HI Zeev - I like you too and thanks for the business and these comments..
let me attempt to claify...
I responded to Kusomotos email thanking David for devulging the source
of Manhatten as being Eggbert
The way I understood it was that when David made the statement he said
that Eggbert had told him
some things about the posters.. then he said he (eggbert) knows they are
not real- end of story..
as though it was a finite fact or conclusion based on David Leibermans
testimony of a phone call..
Perhaps the councelors on the list will aggree this is hearsay..
All my statements are baased on my personal opinion and to the best of
recollection and could contain inacurate dates and time and places as
this has been 30 year spread of time.. In law we would have time for
discovery, and to get documents supporting allegations, also we could
get bonifide statements from witnesses under oath... as i see it and
what irks me is that anyone on a list that makes a accustion can
start rumors or unverified speculative assumpstions. .. without PHYSICAL
samples or specimins.
So as far as why I say trace down the Printers and sources.. I meant if
a family tree were done as far as when the purported posters surfaced
and by whom... I would guess in my experiance many of the minty whites
came from the Find that was in clevlend in 80s of closed down nation
screen... then they were sold- traded to numerous dealers accrooss the
world.. and then... My personal spectulation not based on anything
factual but pondering is that someone actually took some better titles
and did a run of reprints.. that would explain the confusion.. because I
know that many poster printers do repros off other printers in old days
it got so bad that the dots would get the moirie effect and skew...Now
with digital and as someone showed i think Andrea the time is here when
they can do printing that rivals any from the past.... so it will look
sharper that the original.. To answer why i would then contradict and
say you can never find the sources is simple.... we have no idea if we
are even speaking about the same posters or run
as even the reprints can be reprinted... get my point?? and yet... IF
we had a place like Sue and Eds that chronicled all the data it could
give a indicator as to some considerations of origination.. But still
It would take serious resources and Time and its just not worth it..in
the Big picture .
I addressed that also... the time spent with studio attorneys and
investigators would turn them up however most the sources are in Europe
and the Laws are differant.. and also most reprints are never legally
lisensded anyways,, and for the quantity sodl would not PAY to stop the
forgers,...and they Move like Gypsies... so..... whats the point???
because some collectors want the original release... If you legally LOOK
they were never to be sold or even given away as the lisenseing was for
exhibit use ONLY and if they sold them then the artist and actors and
all would get a piece of the cake... so You collect stolen materials...
If we are to all be real... yes the studios and NSS say
return....some studios have sued to gt back wardrobe like From John
Lebold.. who bought it from them... they changed thier minds when they
saw the BUX
So everyone return your stolen Movie posters back to Hollywood..:)
Interesting note.. ebay wont let 35mm feature films be sold yet 16mm can
be.,. so that theatres dont play
GWTW or other classic and make Money..
In closeing My point was to start getting facts not hearsay or naming
dealers that may have sold a poster
that is still not verified by any legal document but only speculation on
a news group...Opinions area great
and perhaps if we just limited to our opinion.. My opinions are meant
to help the hobby not confuse and
If I defend anyone its hopefully for positive reasons.
My point was to be carefull who we accuse as the posters can in some
cases fool the best and I agree that if a person knows and passes off
bootlegs its bad business. I personally like reprints and see a need
for them for customers and movie lovers that appeciate the film art medium..
However even national screen used some repros on some films and also
the re-releases,
Hopefully I answered your questions Zeev if not please tell me what
needs clarification.
best, T
lobby card invasion wrote:
I must jump into this conversation. I have a problem with some of the
things that were said on this topic.
First off Tom's post.
I don't think that David Lieberman either said, or implied that Greg
Egbert was the "single source" of the posters in question.
You, on the other hand, are saying, if I understand you correctly,
that there are many fakes, many fakers, that some dealers handle both
fakes and authentics, some tell you which are fake, some don't, and
its all so complicated ......that there's really no point even
persuing it.
Just recently, when we were discussing the Minty White inserts you said:
"what about simply traceing what dealers made the purported IInsert
reprints and during what years??"
Even though we are now discussing another poster, one aspect still
remains the same. An item that is possibly fraudulent, is being passed
off as an original. Dave Lieberman was courageous enough to report
merely one "alleged offender". I think that is a first step in
achieving exactly what you suggested, but now you're saying :
" I think that trying to find sources can be misleading.."
Are you not contradicting yourself?
Secondly, Rick Ryan's says in his post:
"To tell you the truth, I'm not a big fan of people who fink on, rat
out.....other people"
My question to Rick is this: if you know someone is cheating
collectors by selling repros and passing them off as originals, and
you go and make their name public, does that make you a "fink" or a
"rat"? Don't you think that if one cares about the hobby, such action
on his part would actually be helpful and commedable?
I can understand that some people may be privy to information that may
incriminate others, but are reluctant to come forward for a veriety of
reasons. They know that innocent people are getting burned by the
unscroupulous ones all the time, but choose to be silent for the sake
of "self preservation". I can understand that. But when someone
finally comes forward and blows the whistle, do we call him a "rat"
and a "fink"?
Finally, I just want to go on record saying that I DO NOT KNOW MR.
EGBERT, never dealt with him, and never heard anything about him, good
or bad. Therefore I do neither support or reject Lieberman's
assertion. I simply listen, and with time, will arrive at my own
conclusions.
I met and dealt with Tom Martin, bought posters and lobby cards from
Lieberman and Rick Ryan, and have nothing but good things to say about
all three, as people and as dealers.
(So don't you go busting my ass now :-) )
Zeev
---- Original Message -----
From: Tom Martin <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Strange Manhattan Style B Bridge "rolled" 1-sheet
Maybe he does .. im not defending that the posters are real.....
or how he conducts himself. I m just trying to claiify that the
reprints went to many sources not Just one person ur Greg,,
Kusmotos statement was as if you had found the single sourge the
posters originated from
If you can do that you probably could find Osam Bin Laden... so
get real..
However remember some of the dealers that have originals also did
re-stickes ( reproductionc) and also carry posters from others
that were repros.. some were good - like the ones from Texas. and
also Micael Savageau
Of Po-flake ( illinois) who did great titles.. ( lost his
investment on it) yep Adam Fishman of NYC did MPR
posters and last i heard Marty bought them.. i could have bought
many of these lots and did..
I bought two pallets of artiricordi of Italy.... Ira Roberts of
Beverly hills.. and many many more...
however I didnt print them.... I jsu bought remainders many of the
legit poster dealers sold one sheets as they got the rights,,,
even Musicland with there connections Got One stop posters of
Montery Calif to shrink wrap supposed 1 sheets that even had a
sticker ( suncoast was my customer who is owned by same goody- aka
Musicland- and owne -oncue// ) so i know alittel about the mass
market
Greg sells to Hollywood shops and dealers and does internet.. he
was a advertiser in Movie collectors world and has sold los of
posters..
yes many dealers will not tell the customers the deal...
as far as finding the source I dis agree the source for a pile
but the fact is those postesr have been sold by 100s if not 1000s
of people that have assumed they had the original.
as you stated on Mopeo you couldndt tell the differance,, so you
are saying Greg is the source??
maybe of some and if he admists it to you whats that mean??? If
he wants to run his business that
way thats his choice.. But to state hes the single source for
those manhattens is in my opinion incorrect
as I bought some from England , Italy and Germany...
sorry not end of story// you found one dealer.. that has some
reprints .
and im not defending Greg as I havent spoke to him in afew years.
But fact is he was one of the largest buyers of posters of
volume.. and bul lots
before you make concrete statements such as " end of story "
and saying one dealer is the source
of all reprints of a title wouldnt it be prudent to know the facts?
no cigar David go back to start..
I have some of my Hollywood Dream factory® 1988 fully
illistrated catalogs that depict many of the posters in question
Ill send anyone for 10.00 postpaid while they last...a
collectable itself
postpaid. then you can see what i mean and it was 1988 when many
of the repros were fresh
paypal accepted. 419-662-5584 or mail pobox 5861 Toledo, Ohio 43613
David Lieberman wrote:
egbert knows they are not real. he told me. end of story.
David A. Lieberman
CineMasterpieces.com
602 309 0500
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