I think that this post overall explains Claude's
position and he makes a number of very lucid points
I'm in the middle - I appreciate sniping and I appreciate popcorn bidding
At 02:37 PM 10/3/2009, Claude Litton wrote:
JR
First of all the live auctions are normally much better material.
They also take place a few times a year
(Heritage has 2 or 3 and Everett has 2)
The auctions move very quickly and the
auctioneer does about 100 to 120 posters per hour.
You can pick and choose what you want to bid on
there or via telephone, which is my normal bidding operation
Once the bidding starts you must make up you
mind in seconds not 5 minutes and then 5 more.
I make time for these auctions because of the better material .
I do not have the time to sit at the computer
and watch while the bidding goes up, adds 5
minutes,etc. I don't know what you do for a
living but I work about 60 hours a week. I play
racquetball 3 times a week at a club for 2-3
hours on Sun, Tue, Thu. I go to the gym 3 other
days a week and run for an hour. Friday is my
day of rest. I make more money per hour than
most on those on MoPo make in a week and they
don't pay me that for sitting around playing
with poster auctions. If you Google me you will
see who I am and why my time is heavily scheduled.
I have a wife, 4 children and 8
grandchildren. These are more important to me
than sitting at the computer waiting for extended bids.
My work day starts at 6:30 am after 15 minutes
looking at ebay. If I see something I want, I
immediately place a snipe bid and that is it for
the week on that poster on ebay.
I generally look at Bruce's auctions on Tuesday
and Thursday nights around 10 to 10:30 and then go to bed.
I only placed one high bid recently on Bruce's
auctions because I loved that poster and haven't
seen one in many years. (I won if you are
interested). Had I been able to snipe I believe
it may have gone for less but not much.
There are too many auctions on the internet
every week for extended bidding. I do believe
one thing because I have given it some
thought. Most of the people who complain about
sniping are those who really do not bid a lot
for posters. I'll bet an hour's wage that the
bulk of those who complain never bid as high as
$100 for a poster. Their mentality is that if
they had only placed one more bid they would
have won. They have no clue about how high the snipe bid really was.
Finally, sniping prevents the auction house from
taking your bid higher. Please don't
misinterpret this to point a finger at Bruce or
Grey. I believe they do not do this and I have
placed high bids on both and I was not run
up. However, the current state of the hobby has
created too much turmoil, doubt and finger
pointing which can be helped using sniping.
I said enough and Bruce will now answer me. We
have a friendly adversarial relationship on this
subject and I will not budge. Maybe, he will on
his better auctions which are infrequent. This could be a good compromise.
Claude Litton
In a message dated 10/3/2009 4:01:06 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
Claude,
First of all, I'm not advocating eliminating
sniper programs... it is great that they keep
one's maximum bid secret, even from the auction
house and it is great that they mean I can keep
bidding automatically as the auction is ending when I can't be at my computer.
The only thing extended bidding times at
Heritage would do would be to prevent the behind
the scenes, last micro-second ambush where the
other bidders don't have an opportunity to try
to try to outbid the last bid. Which is
*exactly* how live floor auctions work -- do you
have a problem bidding in live floor auctions?
They *all* have "extended bidding time" where
the guy holding the gavel says "I now have
$5,000... do I hear $5,200? No? $5,200 anyone?
Going once at $5,200... going twice.." etc. If
you don't have a problem with live auctions
which have extended bidding times, why should
you be so adamant about internet auction having the same thing?
Whether the other bidders can win if it happens
to be you they are bidding against is immaterial
-- the other bidders should still have the option to try.
And besides, if you keep your promise that you
will never place a high maximum on an extended
time auction... wait... doesn't that means that
in those cases we actually do stand a chance of
winning, even against you (if you keep that promise)?
-- JR
Claude Litton wrote:
What is the point of you seeing a bid in the
last few seconds if you cannot outbid me (as
you stated). There isn't a single poster that
I cannot buy so if I want it I can bid with an
outrageous price and you cannot beat me. For
example: If a poster has a value around $4,000
to $5,000 based on rarity and recent sales,
what good does it do you if I place a snipe bid
of $10,000? You are tilting at windmills.
There was a poster I wanted a while ago with a
value of $5,000 based on previous sales and
similar titles by the same actor. I placed a
snipe bid of $15,000. So what does the
knowledge of being beaten every time you place
an extended bid do you? You can't win. There
can only be one winner and these weekly auctions have to end sometime.
The most important factor here is this. I
will not under any circumstances place a very
high bid in an extended format so the loser is
the seller. I do not want anyone to know what
I am willing to pay for a poster. Sniping is the only way to go.
CJL
In a message dated 9/28/2009 5:33:21 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] writes:
Todd (and others opposed to 1 or 2 minute extended bidding times),
This is an example where modern technology has
corrupted our cultural philosophy. Letting the
sniper programs battle it out in the last
micro-seconds behind the scenes where no one
can see what is going on is just fine if you
don't care about the concept of public auctions
being a level playing field where everyone
bidding has the opportunity to keep bidding
after a higher bid has trumped their own. But
that is exactly how things are done at live
auctions. Why shouldn't it work that way for
internet auctions? Just because Ebay never did it that way?
I *like* sniper programs and use them. I do
agree that it is a good thing if the auction
house cannot see your maximum bid -- no
temptation, no potential conflict of interest
and no foul. That's one of the big positive
aspects of sniping programs. And, as you say,
it's great that you don't have to sit at the
computer with your fingers glued to the mouse counting down those last seconds.
But we all know that one's theoretical "maximum
bid" is not always writ in stone. Have you
never adjusted your maximum snipe bid as the
auction was nearing its close and you saw how
the bidding was going and decided that maybe
your original maximum might not be quite enough? I certainly have.
If someone has enough money to place extremely
high maximum sniper bids on anything they want
and so virtually guarantee they will win 99% of
what they bid on... well that's very nice for
them, isn't it? But most of us -- even those
who do use sniper programs like myself -- don't
have that luxury and we should be able to see
what the last bid is and decide (quickly) if we
want to try to outbid or not. Fair is fair.
-- JR
Todd Spoor wrote:
To All,
I really don't see the point of extended
bidding, if you put in the MAXIMUM you want to
spend in the first place, if you get outbid in
the last second, so what, you weren't going to
spend more than that anyways!!! Sniping is a
great way to enter a Maximum bid and NOT have
to watch the auction especially if it closes
at an odd time or if you are at work. I win
99% of every auction I bid because of sniping
plus the AUCTION HOUSE can not see my maximum bid!!!
Todd Spoor
-----Original Message-----
From: James Richard
Sent: Sep 28, 2009 4:05 PM
To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Subject: Re: [MOPO] An odd incident on this past Sunday Heritage Auction
Grey,
How is extended bidding a waste of time? If no
last second bid comes in, then the auction
closes as scheduled. If a last second bid does
come in, automatically extending the auction's
end time by maybe 2 minutes gives other
bidders who want the item a chance to trump
the last-second bid. Hardly a waste of their
time if it means they win and auction they
otherwise would have lost -- and both Heritage
and the consigner make more money.
Where's the downside?
I do think the implementation of extended
bidding at emovieposter.com is too broad. I
think in that case that if a bid comes in
during the last 5 minutes the end time is
extended by 5 minutes -- since lots of people
prefer to place a bid in the last couple of
minutes, parameters like that *do* tend to
waste people's time. To work more efficiently,
parameters should probably be 1 or 2 minutes.
An extra 2 minutes isn't going to bother
someone -- not if they really want the poster
-- and it puts everyone on a level playing
field whether they are using gavelsnipe.com or not.
-- JR
Smith, Grey - 1367 wrote:
Hi, John.
Well, the email was supposed to go private but my mistake.
Yes, many snipe bid on the site now.
In fact, as you are aware, we end all items
at 10PM CT every Sunday evening, so many
prefer not to have to sit by the computer.
My belief is that the extended bidding
platform is a waste of our bidderâs time,
though one of our other divisions does use it.
Grey
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