For what it's worth: the first Christies auction was in December 1990,
and
there were movie posters included in various auctions - Phillips,
Guernseys etc
before that.
Kirby McDaniel
www.movieart.net
On Oct 4, 2009, at 5:15 AM, Claude Litton wrote:
When someone cannot write a logical retort and feels a loss of a
verbal dispute, a common comeback is sarcasm with nothing to say.
In a message dated 10/4/2009 3:11:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected]
writes:
But Claude, we have only had internet poster auctions for a little
over 10 years now -- and sniping programs for only about the past 7
years -- and gavelsnipe.com, which is the only sniper that works
with Heritage, has only been around since January, 2007 -- just the
past 2 1/2 years. Surely you were just as busy back before then as
you are now... probably even more so. How did you ever did you find
time to acquire your massive collection *before* internet auctions
and sniper programs? It must have been hell on you.
Wait... I thought if one has whole bunches of money that one can
hire someone to do the things one doesn't have time to do for
oneself. But perhaps I was misinformed.
But I'm not unsympathetic. I do see your point: 99% of the bidders
on poster auctions should be content to live with a less-than level
playing field and be denied the opportunity to trump the last bid to
save you and a few other wealthy, time-constrained folks some time.
I should have realized I was advocating something that might
inconvenience you a bit. How terribly rude of me. I will now cease
with insulting typing and go hang head in utter shame at sheer
unthinking audacity displayed by one's unworthy self.
-- JR
[email protected] wrote:
JR
First of all the live auctions are normally much better material.
They also take place a few times a year (Heritage has 2 or 3 and
Everett has 2)
The auctions move very quickly and the auctioneer does about 100 to
120 posters per hour.
You can pick and choose what you want to bid on there or via
telephone, which is my normal bidding operation
Once the bidding starts you must make up you mind in seconds not 5
minutes and then 5 more.
I make time for these auctions because of the better material .
I do not have the time to sit at the computer and watch while the
bidding goes up, adds 5 minutes,etc. I don't know what you do for
a living but I work about 60 hours a week. I play racquetball 3
times a week at a club for 2-3 hours on Sun, Tue, Thu. I go to the
gym 3 other days a week and run for an hour. Friday is my day of
rest. I make more money per hour than most on those on MoPo make
in a week and they don't pay me that for sitting around playing
with poster auctions. If you Google me you will see who I am and
why my time is heavily scheduled.
I have a wife, 4 children and 8 grandchildren. These are more
important to me than sitting at the computer waiting for extended
bids.
My work day starts at 6:30 am after 15 minutes looking at ebay. If
I see something I want, I immediately place a snipe bid and that is
it for the week on that poster on ebay.
I generally look at Bruce's auctions on Tuesday and Thursday nights
around 10 to 10:30 and then go to bed.
I only placed one high bid recently on Bruce's auctions because I
loved that poster and haven't seen one in many years. (I won if
you are interested). Had I been able to snipe I believe it may
have gone for less but not much.
There are too many auctions on the internet every week for extended
bidding. I do believe one thing because I have given it some
thought. Most of the people who complain about sniping are those
who really do not bid a lot for posters. I'll bet an hour's wage
that the bulk of those who complain never bid as high as $100 for a
poster. Their mentality is that if they had only placed one more
bid they would have won. They have no clue about how high the
snipe bid really was.
Finally, sniping prevents the auction house from taking your bid
higher. Please don't misinterpret this to point a finger at Bruce
or Grey. I believe they do not do this and I have placed high bids
on both and I was not run up. However, the current state of the
hobby has created too much turmoil, doubt and finger pointing which
can be helped using sniping.
I said enough and Bruce will now answer me. We have a friendly
adversarial relationship on this subject and I will not budge.
Maybe, he will on his better auctions which are infrequent. This
could be a good compromise.
Claude Litton
In a message dated 10/3/2009 4:01:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected]
writes:
Claude,
First of all, I'm not advocating eliminating sniper programs... it
is great that they keep one's maximum bid secret, even from the
auction house and it is great that they mean I can keep bidding
automatically as the auction is ending when I can't be at my
computer.
The only thing extended bidding times at Heritage would do would be
to prevent the behind the scenes, last micro-second ambush where
the other bidders don't have an opportunity to try to try to outbid
the last bid. Which is *exactly* how live floor auctions work --
do you have a problem bidding in live floor auctions? They *all*
have "extended bidding time" where the guy holding the gavel says
"I now have $5,000... do I hear $5,200? No? $5,200 anyone? Going
once at $5,200... going twice.." etc. If you don't have a problem
with live auctions which have extended bidding times, why should
you be so adamant about internet auction having the same thing?
Whether the other bidders can win if it happens to be you they are
bidding against is immaterial -- the other bidders should still
have the option to try.
And besides, if you keep your promise that you will never place a
high maximum on an extended time auction... wait... doesn't that
means that in those cases we actually do stand a chance of winning,
even against you (if you keep that promise)?
-- JR
Claude Litton wrote:
What is the point of you seeing a bid in the last few seconds if
you cannot outbid me (as you stated). There isn't a single poster
that I cannot buy so if I want it I can bid with an outrageous
price and you cannot beat me. For example: If a poster has a
value around $4,000 to $5,000 based on rarity and recent
sales, what good does it do you if I place a snipe bid of
$10,000? You are tilting at windmills.
There was a poster I wanted a while ago with a value of $5,000
based on previous sales and similar titles by the same actor. I
placed a snipe bid of $15,000. So what does the knowledge of
being beaten every time you place an extended bid do you? You
can't win. There can only be one winner and these weekly auctions
have to end sometime.
The most important factor here is this. I will not under any
circumstances place a very high bid in an extended format so the
loser is the seller. I do not want anyone to know what I am
willing to pay for a poster. Sniping is the only way to go.
CJL
In a message dated 9/28/2009 5:33:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected]
writes:
Todd (and others opposed to 1 or 2 minute extended bidding times),
This is an example where modern technology has corrupted our
cultural philosophy. Letting the sniper programs battle it out in
the last micro-seconds behind the scenes where no one can see what
is going on is just fine if you don't care about the concept of
public auctions being a level playing field where everyone bidding
has the opportunity to keep bidding after a higher bid has trumped
their own. But that is exactly how things are done at live
auctions. Why shouldn't it work that way for internet auctions?
Just because Ebay never did it that way?
I *like* sniper programs and use them. I do agree that it is a
good thing if the auction house cannot see your maximum bid -- no
temptation, no potential conflict of interest and no foul. That's
one of the big positive aspects of sniping programs. And, as you
say, it's great that you don't have to sit at the computer with
your fingers glued to the mouse counting down those last seconds.
But we all know that one's theoretical "maximum bid" is not always
writ in stone. Have you never adjusted your maximum snipe bid as
the auction was nearing its close and you saw how the bidding was
going and decided that maybe your original maximum might not be
quite enough? I certainly have.
If someone has enough money to place extremely high maximum sniper
bids on anything they want and so virtually guarantee they will
win 99% of what they bid on... well that's very nice for them,
isn't it? But most of us -- even those who do use sniper programs
like myself -- don't have that luxury and we should be able to see
what the last bid is and decide (quickly) if we want to try to
outbid or not. Fair is fair.
-- JR
Todd Spoor wrote:
To All,
I really don't see the point of extended bidding, if you put in
the MAXIMUM you want to spend in the first place, if you get
outbid in the last second, so what, you weren't going to spend
more than that anyways!!! Sniping is a great way to enter a
Maximum bid and NOT have to watch the auction especially if it
closes at an odd time or if you are at work. I win 99% of every
auction I bid because of sniping plus the AUCTION HOUSE can not
see my maximum bid!!!
Todd Spoor
-----Original Message-----
From: James Richard
Sent: Sep 28, 2009 4:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [MOPO] An odd incident on this past Sunday Heritage
Auction
Grey,
How is extended bidding a waste of time? If no last second bid
comes in, then the auction closes as scheduled. If a last second
bid does come in, automatically extending the auction's end time
by maybe 2 minutes gives other bidders who want the item a chance
to trump the last-second bid. Hardly a waste of their time if it
means they win and auction they otherwise would have lost -- and
both Heritage and the consigner make more money.
Where's the downside?
I do think the implementation of extended bidding at emovieposter.com
is too broad. I think in that case that if a bid comes in during
the last 5 minutes the end time is extended by 5 minutes -- since
lots of people prefer to place a bid in the last couple of
minutes, parameters like that *do* tend to waste people's time.
To work more efficiently, parameters should probably be 1 or 2
minutes. An extra 2 minutes isn't going to bother someone -- not
if they really want the poster -- and it puts everyone on a level
playing field whether they are using gavelsnipe.com or not.
-- JR
Smith, Grey - 1367 wrote:
Hi, John.
Well, the email was supposed to go private but my mistake.
Yes, many snipe bid on the site now.
In fact, as you are aware, we end all items at 10PM CT every
Sunday evening, so many prefer not to have to sit by the computer.
My belief is that the extended bidding platform is a waste of
our bidder’s time, though one of our other divisions does use it.
Grey
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