Todd,
As if having free time somehow renders one's opinion/thoughts/philosophy
less worthy than those of someone who has less free time?
Apparently you've not heard of this new-fangled thing they're calling
"retirement"?
But, wait... if Claude has all this money, wouldn't that provide him
with more free time than most? I thought he just got back from a
cruise... but it's silly to discuss this. as how much free time one has
or how they choose to spend it is their own business and no one else's.
As for live auctions not "going on for "hours" that's only because the
bidders finish their business quickly at the gavel's urging and move on.
No reason it shouldn't work that way for extended times on internet
auctions -- I have said I think Bruce's 5-minute extension is way too
long to be efficient and that a 1 or 2 minute extension would do the
job. But even at 5 minutes... C'mon, Todd, has anyone ever really seen
such an auction literally "go on for hours?" I never have. But Bruce
probably can tell us what the longest has been.
But if an extended auction ever did go on for hours, wouldn't that mean
it only happened because interested bidders caused it to happen by
continuing to competitively bid against each other in the finest
traditions of American Capitalism?
It seems to me what you are really saying is we should sacrifice a level
playing field for internet auctions, deny all other interested parties
the opportunity to bid over the most recently-received bid (which a
robot has placed *unseen* by any human in the last micro-second) -- just
to make things a bit more convenient? Specifically more convenient for
wealthy bidders who can afford to place nuclear maximum sniper bids and
so should not have their precious time wasted by puny mortals foolishly
attempting to outbid them?
Huh. Doesn't seem right or fair to me. But I guess those are concepts so
many wealthy folk don't particularly see as relevant to *any*
discussion, do they?
-- JR
Todd Feiertag wrote:
/*If you don't have a problem with live auctions which have extended
bidding times, why should you be so adamant about internet auction
having the same thing?*/
/**/
Jr,
First of all, I'm sure Claude doesn't have all the free time you
obviously have (I'm very jealous, by the way).
Secondly, at a live auction, even though there might be extended
bidding it doesn't go on for possibly hours. In a live auction,
whether in person or on the phone, it's all usually over in less than
a minute. A minute, not possibly hours.
Todd
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 16:03:53 -0400
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [MOPO] An odd incident on this past Sunday Heritage Auction
To: [email protected]
*Claude,*
*First of all, I'm not advocating eliminating sniper programs... it is
great that they keep one's maximum bid secret, even from the auction
house and it is great that they mean I can keep bidding automatically
as the auction is ending when I can't be at my computer.*
*The only thing extended bidding times at Heritage would do would be
to prevent the behind the scenes, last micro-second ambush where the
other bidders don't have an opportunity to try to try to outbid the
last bid. Which is *exactly* how live floor auctions work -- do you
have a problem bidding in live floor auctions? They *all* have
"extended bidding time" where the guy holding the gavel says "I now
have $5,000... do I hear $5,200? No? $5,200 anyone? Going once at
$5,200... going twice.." etc. If you don't have a problem with live
auctions which have extended bidding times, why should you be so
adamant about internet auction having the same thing?
*
*Whether the other bidders can win if it happens to be you they are
bidding against is immaterial -- the other bidders should still have
the option to try.*
*And besides, if you keep your promise that you will never place a
high maximum on an extended time auction... wait... doesn't that means
that in those cases we actually do stand a chance of winning, even
against you (if you keep that promise)?
*
*-- JR*
Claude Litton wrote:
*What is the point of you seeing a bid in the last few seconds if
you cannot outbid me (as you stated). There isn't a single poster
that I cannot buy so if I want it I can bid with an outrageous
price and you cannot beat me. For example: If a poster has a
value around $4,000 to $5,000 based on rarity and recent sales,
what good does it do you if I place a snipe bid of $10,000? You
are tilting at windmills.*
**
*There was a poster I wanted a while ago with a value of $5,000
based on previous sales and similar titles by the same actor. I
placed a snipe bid of $15,000. So what does the knowledge of
being beaten every time you place an extended bid do you? You
can't win. There can only be one winner and these weekly auctions
have to end sometime. *
**
*The most important factor here is this. I will not under any
circumstances place a very high bid in an extended format so the
loser is the seller. I do not want anyone to know what I am
willing to pay for a poster. Sniping is the only way to go.*
**
*CJL*
In a message dated 9/28/2009 5:33:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> writes:
Todd (and others opposed to 1 or 2 minute extended bidding times),
This is an example where modern technology has corrupted our
cultural philosophy. Letting the sniper programs battle it out
in the last micro-seconds behind the scenes where no one can
see what is going on is just fine if you don't care about the
concept of public auctions being a level playing field where
everyone bidding has the opportunity to keep bidding after a
higher bid has trumped their own. But that is exactly how
things are done at live auctions. Why shouldn't it work that
way for internet auctions? Just because Ebay never did it that
way?
I *like* sniper programs and use them. I do agree that it is a
good thing if the auction house cannot see your maximum bid --
no temptation, no potential conflict of interest and no foul.
That's one of the big positive aspects of sniping programs.
And, as you say, it's great that you don't have to sit at the
computer with your fingers glued to the mouse counting down
those last seconds.
But we all know that one's theoretical "maximum bid" is not
always writ in stone. Have you never adjusted your maximum
snipe bid as the auction was nearing its close and you saw how
the bidding was going and decided that maybe your original
maximum might not be quite enough? I certainly have.
If someone has enough money to place extremely high maximum
sniper bids on anything they want and so virtually guarantee
they will win 99% of what they bid on... well that's very nice
for them, isn't it? But most of us -- even those who do use
sniper programs like myself -- don't have that luxury and we
should be able to see what the last bid is and decide
(quickly) if we want to try to outbid or not. Fair is fair.
-- JR
Todd Spoor wrote:
To All,
I really don't see the point of extended bidding, if you
put in the MAXIMUM you want to spend in the first place,
if you get outbid in the last second, so what, you weren't
going to spend more than that anyways!!! Sniping is a
great way to enter a Maximum bid and NOT have to watch the
auction especially if it closes at an odd time or if you
are at work. I win 99% of every auction I bid because of
sniping plus the AUCTION HOUSE can not see my maximum bid!!!
Todd Spoor
-----Original Message-----
From: James Richard
Sent: Sep 28, 2009 4:05 PM
To: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [MOPO] An odd incident on this past
Sunday Heritage Auction
Grey,
How is extended bidding a waste of time? If no last
second bid comes in, then the auction closes as
scheduled. If a last second bid does come in,
automatically extending the auction's end time by
maybe 2 minutes gives other bidders who want the item
a chance to trump the last-second bid. Hardly a waste
of their time if it means they win and auction they
otherwise would have lost -- and both Heritage and the
consigner make more money.
Where's the downside?
I do think the implementation of extended bidding at
emovieposter.com is too broad. I think in that case
that if a bid comes in during the last 5 minutes the
end time is extended by 5 minutes -- since lots of
people prefer to place a bid in the last couple of
minutes, parameters like that *do* tend to waste
people's time. To work more efficiently, parameters
should probably be 1 or 2 minutes. An extra 2 minutes
isn't going to bother someone -- not if they really
want the poster -- and it puts everyone on a level
playing field whether they are using gavelsnipe.com or
not.
-- JR
Smith, Grey - 1367 wrote:
Hi, John.
Well, the email was supposed to go private but my
mistake.
Yes, many snipe bid on the site now.
In fact, as you are aware, we end all items at
10PM CT every Sunday evening, so many prefer not
to have to sit by the computer.
My belief is that the extended bidding platform is
a waste of our bidder's time, though one of our
other divisions does use it.
Grey
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