Jr,
No need to reply tonight with another long winded diatribe. I'm going to bed now. I need to get up early so I can go apple picking with spouse and my kids. Maybe you should get out once in a while. It might do you some good. Goodnight. Todd Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 01:56:41 -0400 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MOPO] An odd incident on this past Sunday Heritage Auction To: [email protected] Todd, As if having free time somehow renders one's opinion/thoughts/philosophy less worthy than those of someone who has less free time? Apparently you've not heard of this new-fangled thing they're calling "retirement"? But, wait... if Claude has all this money, wouldn't that provide him with more free time than most? I thought he just got back from a cruise... but it's silly to discuss this. as how much free time one has or how they choose to spend it is their own business and no one else's. As for live auctions not "going on for "hours" that's only because the bidders finish their business quickly at the gavel's urging and move on. No reason it shouldn't work that way for extended times on internet auctions -- I have said I think Bruce's 5-minute extension is way too long to be efficient and that a 1 or 2 minute extension would do the job. But even at 5 minutes... C'mon, Todd, has anyone ever really seen such an auction literally "go on for hours?" I never have. But Bruce probably can tell us what the longest has been. But if an extended auction ever did go on for hours, wouldn't that mean it only happened because interested bidders caused it to happen by continuing to competitively bid against each other in the finest traditions of American Capitalism? It seems to me what you are really saying is we should sacrifice a level playing field for internet auctions, deny all other interested parties the opportunity to bid over the most recently-received bid (which a robot has placed *unseen* by any human in the last micro-second) -- just to make things a bit more convenient? Specifically more convenient for wealthy bidders who can afford to place nuclear maximum sniper bids and so should not have their precious time wasted by puny mortals foolishly attempting to outbid them? Huh. Doesn't seem right or fair to me. But I guess those are concepts so many wealthy folk don't particularly see as relevant to *any* discussion, do they? -- JR Todd Feiertag wrote: If you don't have a problem with live auctions which have extended bidding times, why should you be so adamant about internet auction having the same thing? Jr, First of all, I'm sure Claude doesn't have all the free time you obviously have (I'm very jealous, by the way). Secondly, at a live auction, even though there might be extended bidding it doesn't go on for possibly hours. In a live auction, whether in person or on the phone, it's all usually over in less than a minute. A minute, not possibly hours. Todd Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 16:03:53 -0400 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MOPO] An odd incident on this past Sunday Heritage Auction To: [email protected] Claude, First of all, I'm not advocating eliminating sniper programs... it is great that they keep one's maximum bid secret, even from the auction house and it is great that they mean I can keep bidding automatically as the auction is ending when I can't be at my computer. The only thing extended bidding times at Heritage would do would be to prevent the behind the scenes, last micro-second ambush where the other bidders don't have an opportunity to try to try to outbid the last bid. Which is *exactly* how live floor auctions work -- do you have a problem bidding in live floor auctions? They *all* have "extended bidding time" where the guy holding the gavel says "I now have $5,000... do I hear $5,200? No? $5,200 anyone? Going once at $5,200... going twice.." etc. If you don't have a problem with live auctions which have extended bidding times, why should you be so adamant about internet auction having the same thing? Whether the other bidders can win if it happens to be you they are bidding against is immaterial -- the other bidders should still have the option to try. And besides, if you keep your promise that you will never place a high maximum on an extended time auction... wait... doesn't that means that in those cases we actually do stand a chance of winning, even against you (if you keep that promise)? -- JR Claude Litton wrote: What is the point of you seeing a bid in the last few seconds if you cannot outbid me (as you stated). There isn't a single poster that I cannot buy so if I want it I can bid with an outrageous price and you cannot beat me. For example: If a poster has a value around $4,000 to $5,000 based on rarity and recent sales, what good does it do you if I place a snipe bid of $10,000? You are tilting at windmills. There was a poster I wanted a while ago with a value of $5,000 based on previous sales and similar titles by the same actor. I placed a snipe bid of $15,000. So what does the knowledge of being beaten every time you place an extended bid do you? You can't win. There can only be one winner and these weekly auctions have to end sometime. The most important factor here is this. I will not under any circumstances place a very high bid in an extended format so the loser is the seller. I do not want anyone to know what I am willing to pay for a poster. Sniping is the only way to go. CJL In a message dated 9/28/2009 5:33:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Todd (and others opposed to 1 or 2 minute extended bidding times), This is an example where modern technology has corrupted our cultural philosophy. Letting the sniper programs battle it out in the last micro-seconds behind the scenes where no one can see what is going on is just fine if you don't care about the concept of public auctions being a level playing field where everyone bidding has the opportunity to keep bidding after a higher bid has trumped their own. But that is exactly how things are done at live auctions. Why shouldn't it work that way for internet auctions? Just because Ebay never did it that way? I *like* sniper programs and use them. I do agree that it is a good thing if the auction house cannot see your maximum bid -- no temptation, no potential conflict of interest and no foul. That's one of the big positive aspects of sniping programs. And, as you say, it's great that you don't have to sit at the computer with your fingers glued to the mouse counting down those last seconds. But we all know that one's theoretical "maximum bid" is not always writ in stone. Have you never adjusted your maximum snipe bid as the auction was nearing its close and you saw how the bidding was going and decided that maybe your original maximum might not be quite enough? I certainly have. If someone has enough money to place extremely high maximum sniper bids on anything they want and so virtually guarantee they will win 99% of what they bid on... well that's very nice for them, isn't it? But most of us -- even those who do use sniper programs like myself -- don't have that luxury and we should be able to see what the last bid is and decide (quickly) if we want to try to outbid or not. Fair is fair. -- JR Todd Spoor wrote: To All, I really don't see the point of extended bidding, if you put in the MAXIMUM you want to spend in the first place, if you get outbid in the last second, so what, you weren't going to spend more than that anyways!!! Sniping is a great way to enter a Maximum bid and NOT have to watch the auction especially if it closes at an odd time or if you are at work. I win 99% of every auction I bid because of sniping plus the AUCTION HOUSE can not see my maximum bid!!! Todd Spoor -----Original Message----- From: James Richard Sent: Sep 28, 2009 4:05 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MOPO] An odd incident on this past Sunday Heritage Auction Grey, How is extended bidding a waste of time? If no last second bid comes in, then the auction closes as scheduled. If a last second bid does come in, automatically extending the auction's end time by maybe 2 minutes gives other bidders who want the item a chance to trump the last-second bid. Hardly a waste of their time if it means they win and auction they otherwise would have lost -- and both Heritage and the consigner make more money. Where's the downside? I do think the implementation of extended bidding at emovieposter.com is too broad. I think in that case that if a bid comes in during the last 5 minutes the end time is extended by 5 minutes -- since lots of people prefer to place a bid in the last couple of minutes, parameters like that *do* tend to waste people's time. To work more efficiently, parameters should probably be 1 or 2 minutes. An extra 2 minutes isn't going to bother someone -- not if they really want the poster -- and it puts everyone on a level playing field whether they are using gavelsnipe.com or not. -- JR Smith, Grey - 1367 wrote: Hi, John. Well, the email was supposed to go private but my mistake. Yes, many snipe bid on the site now. In fact, as you are aware, we end all items at 10PM CT every Sunday evening, so many prefer not to have to sit by the computer. My belief is that the extended bidding platform is a waste of our bidder’s time, though one of our other divisions does use it. Grey Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. 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