Steven You have asked this in kind of a confusing way, but I think I am getting your point.
1) Even though they won't implicitly admit it (for unfathomable reasons) it is clear that several leading auctions and dealers sold these fakes (presumedly unknowing) as originals, and at least one indirectly states they have refunded the buyers they inadvertantly duped. 2) They surely have a record of who consigned what, so they know exactly who consigned each and every fake they have refunded. 3) Therefore, they really absolutely SHOULD contact the buyers of any pieces that were also consigned by those same individuals, to alert the buyers that they MAY have purchased a fake, and that they should have their purchased checked by a talented professional, especially if they have any doubts themselves. Could some of the consignors of the fakes have acquired them second hand or third hand and have only consigned the one fake, and all other items from that consignor were real? Sure, but until the fakes consigned by those individuals are identified, extra precautions must be taken, or this disease will continue to plague our hobby for years to come, as these so-called "buried" fakes keep re-surfacing. I take Steven's point to be that the auctions should be studying their consignment records and notifiying buyers of items consigned by those who also consigned fakes, or at least letting them know that the item came from a consignor who also consigned one or more known fakes if the purchaser inquires, as Steven did (of course, they don't have to name the consignor, just reveal the vital info that they also consigned one or more known fakes). Do I think the auction houses and dealers who sold fakes will do this? I don't know, but I do know that this is a great opportunity for them to step up to the plate and show exactl why they deserve those hefty 20% buyers premiums all these years, and to take a real leadership role in removing this awful taint from our hobby. Bruce On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Steven F. Poole <[email protected]> wrote: > James- > Its not that I would want to go to the consignor to ask for money > back.....what I really would like to know on a questionable item is the > "chain" that it came from. If one of the "alleged masterminds" of the > Universal Horror Scandal was the consignor, I would think that is cause for > alarm. Also, if it came from someone who is reputable, that would be a > reassurance (unless, of course, the donsignor obtained it from one of the > "alleged masterminds"). > Guess there really is no way to be assured on this issue except having > someone you trust examine it. It just seems the auction houses / dealers > have the upper hand in this as they hold the key to at least begin a > provenance check and the buyer does not have the key to fit that lock. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* James Richard <[email protected]> > *To:* Steven F. Poole <[email protected]> > *Cc:* [email protected] > *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2009 2:52 AM > *Subject:* Re: [MOPO] Fw: [MOPO] Provenance............... > > Steven, > > Yes. But even if the seller/auction house did reveal the consigner or > name-provenance of the item you purchased, for practical purposes your only > recourse if you are unhappy with the item is to return it to the > seller/auction house you bought it from and get your money back from them. > The fact that the seller/auction house said they had the item on consignment > from say, Brad Pitt, does not really entitle you to go to directly to Brad > Pitt and ask for your money back. Brad did not sell the item to you -- the > seller/auction house did. That's the whole point of consigning something to > a seller or auction house. > > Sure, if you wanted to pay for it, a lawyer could probably make the > argument that by consigning the item to the seller/auction house that Brad > Pitt was somehow responsible in a vague kind of "implied warranty" fashion > -- some lawyers will argue any position no matter how tenuous -- but I > wouldn't count on winning that one in court. Selling individual used > collectible items "as is" (which is essentially what we doing here) is not > the same thing as the Ford Motor Company manufacturing millions of > automobiles and selling them through a network on independent franchised > dealerships. > > In lieu of some kind of convincing third-party authentication opinion > certificate, I think you will start seeing sellers and auction houses > putting aside this traditional "confidentiality" business and clearly > stating provenances and consigners on the higher-priced items. In other > fields of collecting, such as comic books, if an item is from a well-known > collector's horde, that provenance is almost always mentioned by the seller > -- it adds cachet to the item and will often significantly increase its > selling price. > > Personally, I never really did understand why "consigner confidentiality" > was such a big deal in the movie poster field, but Bruce probably has a > viable theory that ties in with the push 'em ups concept... :) > > -- JR > > Steven F. Poole wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Steven F. Poole <[email protected]> > *To:* Richard Halegua Comic Art & Movie Posters <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2009 12:06 AM > *Subject:* Re: [MOPO] Provenance............... > > Actually, I don't own a SON OF DRACULA, just using that as an > illustration........in my case its another card from another Universal film > and Heritage is not the auction house/dealer in my case. > So, if provenance would not / cannot be disclosed, a dealer or auction > house seems to be putting themselves in the position of taking in back in a > No Questions Asked policy if I happen to suspect it. I would not be able to > go any further back than where I got it from and they would have to honor my > feeling about it? > > ------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.10/2429 - Release Date: 10/11/09 > 18:34:00 > > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com > ___________________________________________________________________ How to > UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: > [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF > MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. > > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
