yes Dave, but they are a small minority of the population
that is the problem
At 07:14 PM 7/21/2010, Dave Rosen wrote:
My daughter is 25 years old, works for a
publisher of graphic novels and helps run an art
gallery. We talk about classic films all the
time. The last time we chatted she told me how
much she enjoyed watching Bus Stop. She's not
put off if a movie is 50 years old and/or shot
in black and white. She also enjoys 70s
grindhouse fare as do many of her friends. Just
a couple of weeks ago a small cinema opened in
Montreal specializing in vintage exploitation, grindhouse and arthouse films.
I know she's not your typical 20-something but
the way some of you generalize about her
generation you'd think they were all
know-nothings who are only waiting for the next Iron Man movie to come out.
I have the feeling many of you are unaware that
there is a significant number of young people
who are knowledgeable and, yes, DO care about
the history of popular culture. Modern
information technology has made older films more accessible than ever.
Furthermore, in Montreal we are currently in the
middle of a festival, Fantasia, that specializes
in showing a wide variety of genre films. The
fest, which is internationally renowned,
attracts thousands of people to soldout shows
and grows by leaps and bounds every year, just
honored Ken Russell and will be ending next week
with a showing of the recently restored version
of Metropolis with music accompaniment by a full symphony orchestra.
Maybe it's because I'm somewhat tied in to the
arts scene in Montreal (which I have to believe
is somewhat similar to arts scenes in other
major North American cities), but I know a LOT
of young people who care about this stuff. Maybe
in mainstream America that's not the case but on
the other hand, mainstream America thinks Justin
Bieber (a Canadian, I'm embarrassed to say) is a great talent.
I think your doom and gloom is misplaced because
most of you, from what I have gleaned, are not
aware of these young people, some of whom will
be the collectors of the future (or are already,
since many of my clients are starting to skew to this younger demographic).
Sure, some stuff will fall by the wayside partly
due to demographics and changing tastes. But
there are a lot of people who will continue to
discover this wonderful hobby as they come to
realize these gorgeous scraps of paper that we
already love are available to them, too.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:[email protected]>Richard Halegua Comic Art
To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Expanding hobby?
While Richard is correct that most of us could
not have seen Thief of Bagdad with Fairbanks in
1924, it is also correct that I saw this film at
the tender age of 11 years old on PBS in NYC as
I did silents like Caligari, Metropolis,
Siegfried, Phantom of the Opera and many more.
Unihorror was regularly shown on TV as were 100s
or 1000s of classic movies as well. So while we
didn't see these movies in 1931 or 1941, we did
in 1961, 71 and beyond. The difference today is
this: young folks (under 35) aren't interested
in watching b&w movies, and movies "without
words" as I hear many young'uns call silents are
as far from their viewing schedule as I am from
the Ukraine. As such, these types of films are
not a part of their public consciousness as they are of ours.
However my good pal Peter is also partially
incorrect in his post. It isn't that the hobby
is imploding entirely - it's that the vintage
part of the hobby is. These younger collectors
who come in to the hobby want Star Wars, or Toy
Story, or Pulp Fiction because they do go to
contemporary films. They just aren't interested
in "classics", and that doesn't just extend to
old b&w movies. Most of them will never watch
Ben Hur, or GWTW, and while they do all watch
vintage cartoons (cartoons have a more timeless
quality) I doubt many of these children
understand they were made in the 30s & 40s.
Unlike our generations, most of them don't know
King Kong was first filmed in 1933, or that the
Psycho that they know is not the Psycho that we know
But it isn't limited to movie posters. Comics
books, baseball cards, post cards and many other
fields are experiencing the same loss of culture
for all of the same reasons above. Boiled down
to it's simplest terms, they aren't interested
in history.. unless it's the history of Yoda or the Twilight Saga
Rich
At 01:34 PM 7/21/2010, Richard Evans wrote:
"If you didn't see the movie when it first
came out, and remember seeing the poster for
it hanging in the theater lobby, then you
might still appreciate the poster, but you are
not going to have that gut-level strong
nostalgic pull to fork over big bucks for it."
I honestly can't think of a single poster I've
bought that I was old enough to see at the
cinema, and mostly I didn't even exist when the film was released.
Isn't that the same for most of us?
People passionately collecting 50's Sci-Fi
aren't in their seventies, Todd and Jim Gresham
aren't in their nineties, or Ken Schacter pushing a century.
I flicked through Hollywood Posters 1 from 1990 the other night.
Huge percentage of 20's and 30's material,
extremely small amount of anything later, and
it only got as recent as a Forbidden Planet 1 sht.
I think it's much the same through to Hollywood Posters 6.
I can imagine the hoots of derision when at
some point not too much later someone had the
crazy idea of suggesting 60s and even 70s posters could be sold at auction.
Looking at those posters from the 20s, they are
beautiful, but look irrelevant.
Everything moves on, and I can't imagine there
being the connection to the film or the style of artwork.
It's the same with antiques/furniture.
Edwardian and Victorian out, continued
popularity of modern design, Mid Century, or earlier or later.
Although what initially hooked me, the
screening of the classics on TV in my youth
isn't there to the same degree to hook young
people, won't people who love film still exist
and seek out and appreciate earlier movies ?
(They may even learn to master subtitles and B&W.)
And, aren't they likely to still find appeal in
the art of whatever genres that will go in and out of fashion.
Though yes, I wouldn't necessarily expect much
from anyone, (in disposable cash or taste) until they reach their thirties.
On 20 Jul 2010, at 21:50, James Richard wrote:
Peter,
I would tend to agree with your feeling that
poster collecting is not expanding, logic
seems to indicate it, but on the other hand
you see some stuff that can't be otherwise
explained. An example would be original
posters for the Harry Potter and Lord of the
Rings films. The prices for those posters,
while not ultra-high, have remained firm, even
though the first of those posters came out 10
years ago. Surely it is younger people
buying/collecting those and similar items and
keeping the prices up? I think the real
question -- one that cannot yet be answered --
is how many of those younger buyers will
*remain* movie poster collectors and, perhaps
as they grow older, become interesting some of
the great older posters? After all, great
poster art is great poster art, regardless of when the film came out.
But there is no denying that simple nostalgia
is the *big* driver in all forms of
memorabilia collecting. If you didn't see the
movie when it first came out, and remember
seeing the poster for it hanging in the
theater lobby, then you might still appreciate
the poster, but you are not going to have that
gut-level strong nostalgic pull to fork over big bucks for it.
-- JR
peter contarino wrote:
I think all of Rons questions are excellent
and on point. I also think that the answer is
all the above. The economy is awful, supply
outweighs demand, the high-rollers have
acquired many of their pieces and the younger
generation(s)would rather text and tweet than
watch a film(literally- I was at a theater
recently and the kid a few seats in front of
me texted for the better part of the film).
And after all, like who, you know, would want
to, like, watch a black and white film anyway
and stuff
dude.
I dont know whether the hobby is expanding;
you guys would know more about that. My sense
is that it is not. I cant imagine it is
bringing a lot of younger people in. I think
the target is 35+ years of age. Maybe older.
For example, my wife and I were spending the
weekend with some friends of ours who just
built a getaway home. They will be retiring
in 10 years or so. We got to talking about
the website Ken and I have and then the
questions started coming: What does the
poster to Cat on a Hot Tin Roof look like?
Do you have it? And so on. Bottom line is
that they want to do at least one room and
maybe more with vintage paper from films that
they love. These are professionals with money
and grew up on classic films who never knew
that this paper existed. I have some ideas
about how to tap into that demographic.
Regarding the images that Heritage provides,
I have to say that they are spot on. I spoke
with Ken Schacter about this yesterday and we
both feel that the photo/scans are by far the
most accurate and highest quality of any
site, auction or not. The catalogs are
unparalleled and are collectable in themselves. Great reference material.
Its an uncertain market to be sure but as
Bruce and Grey have pointed out it is a great time to buy.
Peter
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